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Civilians under siege by Mexican cartel fight back with AK-47s, grenades

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Re: Civilians under siege by Mexican cartel fight back with AK-47s, grenades

#81

Post by autoexec »

esseph wrote: post #74
autoexec wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a reaction to an overwhelming force of criminal gangs killing citizens and the government being powerless to stop them. Is the Mexican government, with their tens of billions in military spending, actually "powerless" to stop these gangs? I very much doubt it.

> Is the Mexican government, with their tens of billions in military spending, actually "powerless" to stop these gangs? I very much doubt it. Then to be blunt, you don't know how a fucking thing. The cartels have their own intelligent networks, anti-air missiles, RPGs and anti-tank weapons, encrypted radio comms and their own 5G/LTE networks. They have helicopters, armored vehicles, etc. In many cases they have the…

If the cartels had more military fighting power and training than the entire Mexican army, air force, and navy the entire country would have been overthrown by now. If Mexico's entire armed forces really are outgunned and outclassed then I guess the cartels should have it. They might as well take Canada too since their military is roughly as powerful as Mexico's and there's a long list of countries with far less military spending then Mexico they could consider invading since they are so unstoppable.

Re: Civilians under siege by Mexican cartel fight back with AK-47s, grenades

#82

Post by redwood »

autoexec wrote: post #81
esseph wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is the Mexican government, with their tens of billions in military spending, actually "powerless" to stop these gangs? I very much doubt it. Then to be blunt, you don't know how a fucking thing. The cartels have their own intelligent networks, anti-air missiles, RPGs and anti-tank weapons, encrypted radio comms and their own 5G/LTE networks. They have helicopters, armored vehicles, etc. In many cases they have the…

If the cartels had more military fighting power and training than the entire Mexican army, air force, and navy the entire country would have been overthrown by now. If Mexico's entire armed forces really are outgunned and outclassed then I guess the cartels should have it. They might as well take Canada too since their military is roughly as powerful as Mexico's and there's a long list of countries with far less mili…

The strength of a military or militant organization is not a binary concept. It is context dependent.. a remote mountain area is the kind of place that the military you describe simply is spread too thin to have much coverage of. Sure they could go beat an insurgent in a single battle but that insurgent will dissolve into the hillsides and re emerge later..

Re: Civilians under siege by Mexican cartel fight back with AK-47s, grenades

#83

Post by redwood »

aucisson_masque wrote: post #5

Mexico has been like that for decades, I believe it's top 1 priority for most Mexicans yet it's still not fixed. What gives ? At some point when your government is so corrupt, you got to take weapon and organize yourself. It's sad.

Because of their neighbors to the north having an insatiable appetite and willingness to spend large amounts of money on illicit goods. Mexico should probably legalize and bring these into a regulated state of the United States would not allow it

Re: Civilians under siege by Mexican cartel fight back with AK-47s, grenades

#84

Post by krapp »

esseph wrote: post #68
tejohnso wrote: post #2

So you're forced to join a gang and fight their rival gangs, or you form your own gang equipped with rifles and grenades ready to commit violence, so that you can fight against joining that gang, or any other gang. Either way you're in a violent gang. I guess I'd rather have the state maintain a monopoly on violence.

> I guess I'd rather have the state maintain a monopoly on violence. Like the Taliban?

All states maintain a monopoly on violence. That's literally the definition of a state: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence

Re: Civilians under siege by Mexican cartel fight back with AK-47s, grenades

#85

Post by jauntywundrkind »

Related, Colombia's new president Abelardo d' Espriella is getting sworn in in a couple hours. He won a somewhat close election against a more peace process party, on a platform of radical violence & all out total war against the various cartels, gangs, and rebel factions.

Definitely huge echoes of El Salvador's intense crackdown. But it seems pretty uncertain that he actually has the military force capable of doing this. Colombia's wide array of insurgents are far more organized and well equipped than El Salvador, ala the Mexico situation here; this isn't like the nasty but kind of low level violence of El Salvador. Who all in all had a pretty easy time at it just built a ton of super brutal prisons, stripping legal protections, and then rounding up a couple % of the state's population immediately (and letting some go too, eventually, after months of brutal incarceration).

I'd love recommendations beyond War Fronts, who in tune into a decent bit. I need to subscribe, to support. They just had a video on Colombia today. https://youtu.be/OiQZCJmkmR8

Re: Civilians under siege by Mexican cartel fight back with AK-47s, grenades

#86

Post by atmavatar »

Kalanos wrote: post #10

the real war the US should be fighting

There's no need to fight.

The proper solution is to end the war on drugs, allowing people to do what they will with their own bodies. Once people can legally buy their drugs, the cartels will starve.

Use the money saved from reducing our prison population by 75% to pay for widely-accessible treatment for addiction as well as mental health problems. Build more affordable housing so homelessness is less of an issue. As an added bonus: roll back the last half-century of disastrous trickle-down economics which gutted the middle class, so there's less incentive to start using in the first place.

Reminder: the Nixon tapes reveal that the war on drugs was started in the first place not to protect the public from harmful drugs but rather as a means to criminalize his political enemies (e.g., hippies and black people) in a way that couldn't be challenged in court on 14th amendment grounds.

The problem, of course, is those solutions are hard, it's a lot easier to get voters to root for building more walls and sending troops to kill more foreigners, and there's a lot of money to be made by the military industrial complex and private prison system by prolonging the problem.

Re: Civilians under siege by Mexican cartel fight back with AK-47s, grenades

#87

Post by esseph »

krapp wrote: post #84
esseph wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess I'd rather have the state maintain a monopoly on violence. Like the Taliban?

All states maintain a monopoly on violence. That's literally the definition of a state: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence

Did you respond to the wrong comment?

The OP is saying they want the state to maintain the monopoly on violence.

My counter to that argument is the very existence of the current Afghan government.

It's a "Are you sure you want that?" statement.

Re: Civilians under siege by Mexican cartel fight back with AK-47s, grenades

#88

Post by 0dayz »

atmavatar wrote: post #86
Kalanos wrote: post #10

the real war the US should be fighting

There's no need to fight. The proper solution is to end the war on drugs, allowing people to do what they will with their own bodies. Once people can legally buy their drugs, the cartels will starve. Use the money saved from reducing our prison population by 75% to pay for widely-accessible treatment for addiction as well as mental health problems. Build more affordable housing so homelessness is less of an issue. As…

That is a pipedream coming from some one who supports drug legalization, you think a multi billion dollar enterprise with unique position of having weapons and even armies are gonna pack their bags after USA become a drug haven?

No they will do what they do now:

Expand into other illegal and legal venues and worst case attempt a coup.

Re: Civilians under siege by Mexican cartel fight back with AK-47s, grenades

#90

Post by doodlebugging »

burningChrome wrote: post #67
aucisson_masque wrote: post #5

Mexico has been like that for decades, I believe it's top 1 priority for most Mexicans yet it's still not fixed. What gives ? At some point when your government is so corrupt, you got to take weapon and organize yourself. It's sad.

>> Mexico has been like that for decades. Back in the 60's and 70's my Dad worked or Lockheed Martin. He made frequent trips to Mexico to work with engineering teams there on projects he was working on. It only took him one trip to realize how corrupt the police were. He had parked outside of his hotel with his rental car. Came out. It was surrounded by Policia. They told him he couldn't park here. "Sure thing, I'll…

Mexico is hardly the only nation where this is a problem.
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