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Launch HN: ProvenMetal (YC S26) delivers circuit boards in days instead of weeks

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Re: Launch HN: ProvenMetal (YC S26) delivers circuit boards in days instead of weeks

#121

Post by eaurouge »

> Now, the need for a domestic PCB supply chain is higher than ever before, yet the infrastructure has been dissolving over the last 2 decades. What is left is mostly small family run manufacturers (CMs) that have been operating in largely the same, labor intensive way since the early 2000’s.

Would really like to see you guys succeed. We definitely need more manufacturers in the US. But this isn't quite true. Not now, and I'm not sure it's ever been the case in the two decades plus that I've been in hardware. Apart from manufacturers like Sierra Circuits in the Bay Area and Advanced PCB in Colorado that have been around all of that time, we had Tempo (in SF then but no longer), and now have MacroFab (Houston) and CircutHub (also YC, somewhere on the East Coast I think).

Re: Launch HN: ProvenMetal (YC S26) delivers circuit boards in days instead of weeks

#122

Post by willcarkner »

eaurouge wrote: post #121

> Now, the need for a domestic PCB supply chain is higher than ever before, yet the infrastructure has been dissolving over the last 2 decades. What is left is mostly small family run manufacturers (CMs) that have been operating in largely the same, labor intensive way since the early 2000’s. Would really like to see you guys succeed. We definitely need more manufacturers in the US. But this isn't quite true. Not now…

True, there are a few standout cases of larger CMs. Tempo was the poster child and they did a lot of things right. MacroFab and CircuitHub will be great competitors to have, and as stated in earlier threads we believe our edge will come from owning the entire stack from design to testing.

Re: Launch HN: ProvenMetal (YC S26) delivers circuit boards in days instead of weeks

#123

Post by awesomeusername »

willcarkner wrote: post #31
seizethecheese wrote: post #27

I ran a hardware startup for about a decade. We ended up doing all PCB assembly in China. We did try to find this in the USA, but it was indeed too slow and expensive. The bottleneck in assembling a PCB is usually component sourcing. My product was not the most complicated, and even then, to assemble in Shenzhen, China, it often took a few weeks to get all the components. The core issue here is that latency is determ…

This is our first step to work more closely with the designer throughout the process. Currently there's a wall between the designer and the manufacturer, which hurts lead times massively, we're aiming to bring that down.

I'd love a kicad plugin where not just lead times but current stock etc are showed live, and for anything marginal a button I can smash to order it in advance.

Even if 50% of the time I didn't end up using that component, that would still be an amazing service.

We pre-order parts to JLC during the design process. I know people using JLC aren't your target but my advise would be to not ignore how gloriously friction-less it is now buying parts into private inventory - and with no ongoing fees as well. They have really nailed it.

Re: Launch HN: ProvenMetal (YC S26) delivers circuit boards in days instead of weeks

#124

Post by amirhirsch »

structural wrote: post #97
willcarkner wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. Sounds like a super interesting product. Hadn't considered lines of credit yet, but definitely would be valuable to some higher ticket customers.

We currently use a small US contract manufacturer that works pretty much as you say. The turn times are terrible (7+ weeks, not 7 days), and this is a major issue, but there are exactly two reasons we continue to use them: 1. Line of credit - we are not billed until we take delivery of tested product. 2. Willingness to handle high mix, low volume products. One product line example: a dozen SKUs with 95-98% parts in c…

My experience with lines of credit isn't unique, and I think it's one of the underrated advantages of doing business in the US: we have a sufficiently stable commercial legal system that a huge amount of the economy can run on credit.

I have thought that there is a big opportunity financing components by optioning the sale of overstocked parts ahead of time. For a consumer electronics product that had heavy Q4 sales, my annual sales were entirely dependent on how many chips I could order by October 19, but then I'd have excess stock every January because things are sold in reels of varying sizes.

Re: Launch HN: ProvenMetal (YC S26) delivers circuit boards in days instead of weeks

#125

Post by willcarkner »

awesomeusername wrote: post #123
willcarkner wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is our first step to work more closely with the designer throughout the process. Currently there's a wall between the designer and the manufacturer, which hurts lead times massively, we're aiming to bring that down.

I'd love a kicad plugin where not just lead times but current stock etc are showed live, and for anything marginal a button I can smash to order it in advance. Even if 50% of the time I didn't end up using that component, that would still be an amazing service. We pre-order parts to JLC during the design process. I know people using JLC aren't your target but my advise would be to not ignore how gloriously friction-l…

That's exactly what we are trying to do.

Re: Launch HN: ProvenMetal (YC S26) delivers circuit boards in days instead of weeks

#126

Post by willcarkner »

otekengineering wrote: post #84
willcarkner wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, though it was only somewhat recently that they transitioned to building their own automated facility. We don't plan to do the design ourselves, we realize that our users will be using AI design tools that need to be integrated with the factory. We will build that link.

what's your vision for that link? it's not clear to me what the interface to the user is, or who the user is

A PCB design tool that has manufacturing built in, for use by humans or agents.

Re: Launch HN: ProvenMetal (YC S26) delivers circuit boards in days instead of weeks

#128

Post by pbronez »

amirhirsch wrote: post #79

Good luck! One valuable differentiation you could provide is a line of credit. If you can’t win on price, you can help your customers win on cash-conversion cycle. I’ve been making hardware for 20 years. My highest-volume product was Flybrix, a LEGO drone kit manufactured by Seeed and UniPrecision in China and by Sparqtron in Fremont, California. I’d be happy to work with you on a v2 reboot: Flybrix Swarmz, because e…

Credit based on a SBIR is a great idea. Seems like something the Small Business Administration should offer.

Re: Launch HN: ProvenMetal (YC S26) delivers circuit boards in days instead of weeks

#130

Post by pbronez »

awesomeusername wrote: post #123
willcarkner wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is our first step to work more closely with the designer throughout the process. Currently there's a wall between the designer and the manufacturer, which hurts lead times massively, we're aiming to bring that down.

I'd love a kicad plugin where not just lead times but current stock etc are showed live, and for anything marginal a button I can smash to order it in advance. Even if 50% of the time I didn't end up using that component, that would still be an amazing service. We pre-order parts to JLC during the design process. I know people using JLC aren't your target but my advise would be to not ignore how gloriously friction-l…

Some financial engineering could help here too. That abandoned inventory is useful to somebody, but warehousing can be non trivial… how do you get liquid and reroute the parts?

There’s some flavor of consignment waiting to happen here.

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