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Launch HN: ProvenMetal (YC S26) delivers circuit boards in days instead of weeks

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Re: Launch HN: ProvenMetal (YC S26) delivers circuit boards in days instead of weeks

#91

Post by willcarkner »

veqq wrote: post #89
ford wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll hijack this point to talk about robotics - I think we agree 1) It's not ideal for China to control production for _all_ of the things we use here. 2) What they already are good at they'll continue to improve at, because of domain knowledge & ecosystem 3) The reason they are ahead in the first place is labor cost & the QOL workers will tolerate (and intentional government investment) 4) The only way around this i…

> The reason they are ahead in the first place is labor cost & the QOL workers will tolerate That hasn't been accurate in a decade. Chinese labor costs have been higher than Mexico since before Covid. They have more efficient firms, business processes and so much more. The parenthesized "(and intentional government investment)" is related to how they developed nimbler systems, but ignores the totality of industrial p…

In this case specifically they also have a huge amount of automation and process learnings from being around for 20+ years.

Re: Launch HN: ProvenMetal (YC S26) delivers circuit boards in days instead of weeks

#92

Post by cryo32 »

willcarkner wrote: post #80
cryo32 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

medium to large defence companies tend to have in house board fabs. I worked in one.

yes, what was the utilization like?

20-40% capacity. Reserve available. Turnaround same day on a board (2 layer). Next day 4 layer. Two days exotic (rogers etc). Pick, place, soldered 2 days or delivered to lab immediately after panel cut.

If they had a fast production run in they could extend to 24 hours operation and triple base capacity.

They did a fair bit of TH though which was manually stuffed and wave soldered which could slow stuff down considerably.

Re: Launch HN: ProvenMetal (YC S26) delivers circuit boards in days instead of weeks

#93

Post by willcarkner »

cryo32 wrote: post #92
willcarkner wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, what was the utilization like?

20-40% capacity. Reserve available. Turnaround same day on a board (2 layer). Next day 4 layer. Two days exotic (rogers etc). Pick, place, soldered 2 days or delivered to lab immediately after panel cut. If they had a fast production run in they could extend to 24 hours operation and triple base capacity. They did a fair bit of TH though which was manually stuffed and wave soldered which could slow stuff down conside…

Very interesting, I'm wondering if that low-utilization rate justifies the capex of building a line.

Re: Launch HN: ProvenMetal (YC S26) delivers circuit boards in days instead of weeks

#96

Post by colinnordin »

amirhirsch wrote: post #79

Good luck! One valuable differentiation you could provide is a line of credit. If you can’t win on price, you can help your customers win on cash-conversion cycle. I’ve been making hardware for 20 years. My highest-volume product was Flybrix, a LEGO drone kit manufactured by Seeed and UniPrecision in China and by Sparqtron in Fremont, California. I’d be happy to work with you on a v2 reboot: Flybrix Swarmz, because e…

Sad to see the Lego drone sold out, hope you get that reboot going!

Re: Launch HN: ProvenMetal (YC S26) delivers circuit boards in days instead of weeks

#97

Post by structural »

willcarkner wrote: post #82
amirhirsch wrote: post #79

Good luck! One valuable differentiation you could provide is a line of credit. If you can’t win on price, you can help your customers win on cash-conversion cycle. I’ve been making hardware for 20 years. My highest-volume product was Flybrix, a LEGO drone kit manufactured by Seeed and UniPrecision in China and by Sparqtron in Fremont, California. I’d be happy to work with you on a v2 reboot: Flybrix Swarmz, because e…

Wow. Sounds like a super interesting product. Hadn't considered lines of credit yet, but definitely would be valuable to some higher ticket customers.

We currently use a small US contract manufacturer that works pretty much as you say. The turn times are terrible (7+ weeks, not 7 days), and this is a major issue, but there are exactly two reasons we continue to use them:

1. Line of credit - we are not billed until we take delivery of tested product. 2. Willingness to handle high mix, low volume products. One product line example: a dozen SKUs with 95-98% parts in common on 2 PCBs, a single set of parts (that we aren't billed for up front) and quoting to build 20 of SKU 1, 50 of SKU 2, 10 of SKU 3, etc. without charging 2-3x the price.

We manufacture in the research / test equipment / defense space and I've heard similar things from other small hardware companies that are like us.

Re: Launch HN: ProvenMetal (YC S26) delivers circuit boards in days instead of weeks

#98

Post by cryo32 »

willcarkner wrote: post #93
cryo32 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20-40% capacity. Reserve available. Turnaround same day on a board (2 layer). Next day 4 layer. Two days exotic (rogers etc). Pick, place, soldered 2 days or delivered to lab immediately after panel cut. If they had a fast production run in they could extend to 24 hours operation and triple base capacity. They did a fair bit of TH though which was manually stuffed and wave soldered which could slow stuff down conside…

Very interesting, I'm wondering if that low-utilization rate justifies the capex of building a line.

It's mostly for security reasons. Both supply chain and secrecy.

Re: Launch HN: ProvenMetal (YC S26) delivers circuit boards in days instead of weeks

#99

Post by willcarkner »

structural wrote: post #97
willcarkner wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. Sounds like a super interesting product. Hadn't considered lines of credit yet, but definitely would be valuable to some higher ticket customers.

We currently use a small US contract manufacturer that works pretty much as you say. The turn times are terrible (7+ weeks, not 7 days), and this is a major issue, but there are exactly two reasons we continue to use them: 1. Line of credit - we are not billed until we take delivery of tested product. 2. Willingness to handle high mix, low volume products. One product line example: a dozen SKUs with 95-98% parts in c…

Ok, fair points. 2. is our focus right now and then we may add 1. over time.

Re: Launch HN: ProvenMetal (YC S26) delivers circuit boards in days instead of weeks

#100

Post by jpatten »

I hope you guys are successful because I would love to see more US options in this space. Realistically, you can get boards in 7 days from China, and competing with them on price seems like a challenge. So that leaves ITAR and people who need boards even faster. Sounds like that’s where you’re focusing your energy already. What pick and place are you using now that you’ve moved on from the Neoden world?
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