Unions Can Save Tech Workers and Tech Work • Hacker News Board

Re: Unions Can Save Tech Workers and Tech Work

#61

Post by superfrank » Thu, Aug 06, 2026, 8:25 PM UTC

jamestimmins wrote: post #14

As a California tech worker (where the article is focused), I have zero interest in joining a union and firmly believe that much of what has been possible as a tech employee (high paying, interesting career) is in part because we don't have unions, and instead employees own equity and get valuable skills. Modern tech workers arguably have the best career deal in the history of humankind. I see no upside in killing th…

> Modern tech workers arguably have the best career deal in the history of humankind. I see no upside in killing the goose with the golden egg.

I agree, but that's actually one of the strongest arguments for why tech workers should unionize now. Wages are high because employees have leverage due to 10-15 years of demand for skilled workers being higher than supply. If you wait until that leverage is gone to form a union then you've lost a lot of the leverage to negotiate for better conditions as a union.

For the record, I've been in a union in another industry much earlier in my career, and I'm pretty on the fence about a tech workers union, but I think your argument is pretty short sighted.

Re: Unions Can Save Tech Workers and Tech Work

#62

Post by satvikpendem » Thu, Aug 06, 2026, 8:25 PM UTC

braiamp wrote: post #55

throw-the-towel wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still not clear to me whether union protection is going to be worth the decrease in job creation. There's a reason Europe has way less IT positions with worse salaries.

Salary isn't even be all end all. In fact, higher salary might be worse, because in total you have to pay out of pocket for things your europeans counterparts. Therefore they should have more discretionary income compared to a US worker (I don't think I have to source this).

Actually it is, because you can make money in the US and then retire in Europe or wherever else you want and live like a king, as many people I know have done.

Re: Unions Can Save Tech Workers and Tech Work

#63

Post by triceratops » Thu, Aug 06, 2026, 8:25 PM UTC

missedthecue wrote: post #45

triceratops wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most tech workers don't have bad pay or benefits anyway. But what if they could be even better? This is an industry with 75-80% gross margins, quite unlike any other industry in history.

But despite those margins, it's also an industry with a LOT of unprofitable businesses, unlike any other industry in history. From many people's perspective, if they already earn well, why rock the boat in a high effort high risk way so that the union can negotiate an 8% raise instead of a 4% raise. I don't need the money. And the bad to worst case outcomes could give me serious irreversible buyers remorse.

> I don't need the money.

I promise you, management doesn't think that way.

Re: Unions Can Save Tech Workers and Tech Work

#64

Post by DiscourseFan » Thu, Aug 06, 2026, 8:25 PM UTC

braiamp wrote: post #55

throw-the-towel wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still not clear to me whether union protection is going to be worth the decrease in job creation. There's a reason Europe has way less IT positions with worse salaries.

Salary isn't even be all end all. In fact, higher salary might be worse, because in total you have to pay out of pocket for things your europeans counterparts. Therefore they should have more discretionary income compared to a US worker (I don't think I have to source this).

No, the benefits Europeans get do not translate to any equivalence to the money an Average American makes. The per capita income is like 100k a year now.

Re: Unions Can Save Tech Workers and Tech Work

#65

Post by bko » Thu, Aug 06, 2026, 8:26 PM UTC

hackthemack wrote: post #30

jamestimmins wrote: post #14

As a California tech worker (where the article is focused), I have zero interest in joining a union and firmly believe that much of what has been possible as a tech employee (high paying, interesting career) is in part because we don't have unions, and instead employees own equity and get valuable skills. Modern tech workers arguably have the best career deal in the history of humankind. I see no upside in killing th…

These topics are just so difficult to debate. They are filled with feelings and one person's perspective or anecdote, and it is difficult to drill down into what is true or what is not true. You wrote "Modern tech workers arguably have the best career deal in the history of humankind". How do you know? And, for the sake of argument, let us say it is the best deal in the history of humankind, does that make it fair th…

Look at other unions. It's a "union" of workers so they need to have some guidelines.

Teaching for instance you know exactly how much money you'll be making over the next 20 years. Add a masters (which may or may not contribute to you being a better teacher) get a bump.

Do you believe there is a direct correlation with how long someone was working there and how productive they are? Would you like to live in this rubric? What kind of people do you think are interested in this kind of rigid rubric? It works in some places that are commoditized. A toll collector does the job, and maybe there is some merit to rewarding someone for loyalty. But programming is not that kind of job.

The best people want to work in a place where they're valued (and paid) on merit. Why shouldn't a better engineer with less formal experience be promoted above someone who has been filling a desk for the last 20 years?

Re: Unions Can Save Tech Workers and Tech Work

#66

Post by satvikpendem » Thu, Aug 06, 2026, 8:27 PM UTC

fnord77 wrote: post #29

jamestimmins wrote: post #14

As a California tech worker (where the article is focused), I have zero interest in joining a union and firmly believe that much of what has been possible as a tech employee (high paying, interesting career) is in part because we don't have unions, and instead employees own equity and get valuable skills. Modern tech workers arguably have the best career deal in the history of humankind. I see no upside in killing th…

until the VC money runs out (e.g. high interest rates) and we have to grind away at some awful, large company

Oh the horror of making 500k working at a large company of Google.

Seriously, I wonder if tech workers really even understand how lucky they are being able to sit at a desk instead of, say, toiling away in the mines.

Re: Unions Can Save Tech Workers and Tech Work

#67

Post by bko » Thu, Aug 06, 2026, 8:29 PM UTC

hnav wrote: post #38

jamestimmins wrote: post #14

As a California tech worker (where the article is focused), I have zero interest in joining a union and firmly believe that much of what has been possible as a tech employee (high paying, interesting career) is in part because we don't have unions, and instead employees own equity and get valuable skills. Modern tech workers arguably have the best career deal in the history of humankind. I see no upside in killing th…

The underlying thesis for the valuation of all these AI labs is that 80% of tech workers can be replaced with automation.

Unions will obviously save the industry and its employees. Worked for the auto workers...

Re: Unions Can Save Tech Workers and Tech Work

#68

Post by throw-the-towel » Thu, Aug 06, 2026, 8:31 PM UTC

bko wrote: post #67

hnav wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The underlying thesis for the valuation of all these AI labs is that 80% of tech workers can be replaced with automation.

Unions will obviously save the industry and its employees. Worked for the auto workers...

And the coal workers too. If the industry itself is dying pr mutating then the workers are screwed either way, union or no union.

Re: Unions Can Save Tech Workers and Tech Work

#69

Post by DiscourseFan » Thu, Aug 06, 2026, 8:31 PM UTC

alephnerd wrote: post #19

DiscourseFan wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah just wait until you get laid off

Unions don't help with that as can be seen with Volkswagen or much of Detroit. Or, from an IP-driven industry perspective, the offshoring of Hollywood following the SAG and WGA strikes in the early 2020s. And if IATSE couldn't stop VFX from being offshored back in the 2000s and 2010s, then tech unions wouldn't be able to either. Edit: can't reply > Without film industry unions, might the offshoring have been undertak…

Yeah but this is a limited perspective. If the union was truly international (like they _used_ to be) VFX workers could push for high wages wherever they worked.

Re: Unions Can Save Tech Workers and Tech Work

#70

Post by hylaride » Thu, Aug 06, 2026, 8:31 PM UTC

popalchemist wrote: post #41

hylaride wrote: post #4

This is essentially a story about front-line traditional desktop support/sysadmins at a public university. It's not going to be the same story at much higher paid shops where workers often have equity, good benefits, and the market has provided access to other jobs if you lose yours (in my experience, there are still shortages of qualified and competent engineers). I would like a different method to deal with the pit…

Being in a union isn't about being at one job for life. I'm a member of IATSE (the huge mega-union behind thousands of technical job titles/positions in the entertainment industry, such as film editors, sound mixers, etc; really it's many mini-unions acting as one.) There is really no connection to belonging to a union and being stuck in one job title, in fact the incentives are set up in the opposite direction - the…

> You should revist your stance on unions and start by reading up on how they work and what benefits they confer. Assuming you are not in the 1%, a union almost certianly would benefit you. It is a way of equalizing the playing field when the interests of BIG capital conflict with the quality of life and meaningful human experience of individuals.

I already have that agency. If I wanted money, I'd have long ago worked for a FAANG. I didn't because I wanted something else. I enjoy working at startups and small to medium sized firms for the challenge and flexibility in all matter of things I get to work on. I have shifted my career from being a sysadmin/netadmin, to devops, to development and it just involved getting involved at places I've worked at. There was no need for licensing, meeting requirements, etc.

If I felt I didn't have any of that agency, I'd likely feel differently about it. But I just don't see what any union (small or large) is going to do for me unless I was in a jurisdiction where they provided extra services like healthcare or other universal benefits.