There was an opportunity to organize and exploit market power back in 2017-2018, when there was a frenzy of recruiting and growth in the industry. The field was also much more ideologically coherent, in the wake of the first Trump election, than it is today. But nothing came of it. It's less clear that any similar opportunity exists today, or why it would come together now when it didn't under more favorable circumstances then.
Unions Can Save Tech Workers and Tech Work
51–60 of 153 posts
Re: Unions Can Save Tech Workers and Tech Work
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unions don't help with that as can be seen with Volkswagen or much of Detroit. Or, from an IP-driven industry perspective, the offshoring of Hollywood following the SAG and WGA strikes in the early 2020s. And if IATSE couldn't stop VFX from being offshored back in the 2000s and 2010s, then tech unions wouldn't be able to either. Edit: can't reply > Without film industry unions, might the offshoring have been undertak…
Without film industry unions, might the offshoring have been undertaken even earlier?
History knows no conditionals.
Re: Unions Can Save Tech Workers and Tech Work
#53As a California tech worker (where the article is focused), I have zero interest in joining a union and firmly believe that much of what has been possible as a tech employee (high paying, interesting career) is in part because we don't have unions, and instead employees own equity and get valuable skills. Modern tech workers arguably have the best career deal in the history of humankind. I see no upside in killing th…
The lack of union is exactly the reason why every software developer shut the fuck up and took money in exchange for building spyware, tracking software, ran psychological experiments on unknowing people and generally contributed to the destruction of society. "Engineers" would have the balls to stand up to it, and unions would be the backbone that helps it happen.
Instead, you got a nice paycheck, and made sure to make the world actively worse for everyone. Good job.
Re: Unions Can Save Tech Workers and Tech Work
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
Volkswagen is perhaps the greatest counter-example. The union in Germany converted every layoff initiative in whole or in part (more often in whole) into partial retirements, backfill stops, reduced working hours, compensation freezes.
100,000 jobs were still lost and there is no one else who can absorb them. And the experience of the VFX industry is probably the best example of what would happen to a heavily unionized software driven industry. Edit: can't reply > are you arguing that it’s better to just straight up fire people Nope, but there is a real risk that what arises is labor immobility and blocking new entrants.
Wait a second, are you arguing that it’s better to just straight up fire people? In that case, the company is absorbing the lion’s share of the profits (or whatever profit is left) so you are effectively arguing in favor of shielding an entity over the livelihoods of the people who work within it.
Re: Unions Can Save Tech Workers and Tech Work
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah just wait until you get laid off
It's still not clear to me whether union protection is going to be worth the decrease in job creation. There's a reason Europe has way less IT positions with worse salaries.
Salary isn't even be all end all. In fact, higher salary might be worse, because in total you have to pay out of pocket for things your europeans counterparts. Therefore they should have more discretionary income compared to a US worker (I don't think I have to source this).
Re: Unions Can Save Tech Workers and Tech Work
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah just wait until you get laid off
Unions don't help with that as can be seen with Volkswagen or much of Detroit. Or, from an IP-driven industry perspective, the offshoring of Hollywood following the SAG and WGA strikes in the early 2020s. And if IATSE couldn't stop VFX from being offshored back in the 2000s and 2010s, then tech unions wouldn't be able to either. Edit: can't reply > Without film industry unions, might the offshoring have been undertak…
VFX workers did try to unionize along with software engineers. Major tech companies colluded illegally and were caught doing this. This was way before the AI boom
Re: Unions Can Save Tech Workers and Tech Work
#57As a California tech worker (where the article is focused), I have zero interest in joining a union and firmly believe that much of what has been possible as a tech employee (high paying, interesting career) is in part because we don't have unions, and instead employees own equity and get valuable skills. Modern tech workers arguably have the best career deal in the history of humankind. I see no upside in killing th…
The underlying thesis for the valuation of all these AI labs is that 80% of tech workers can be replaced with automation.
Then why are these labs actively hiring engineers?
Re: Unions Can Save Tech Workers and Tech Work
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah just wait until you get laid off
It's still not clear to me whether union protection is going to be worth the decrease in job creation. There's a reason Europe has way less IT positions with worse salaries.
I think you’ll find that at the very least unions preserve jobs in contracting industries, which software is clearly in the process of.
Re: Unions Can Save Tech Workers and Tech Work
#59This is essentially a story about front-line traditional desktop support/sysadmins at a public university. It's not going to be the same story at much higher paid shops where workers often have equity, good benefits, and the market has provided access to other jobs if you lose yours (in my experience, there are still shortages of qualified and competent engineers). I would like a different method to deal with the pit…
If anything a union would aid job mobility. And theres no reason you cant still individually negotiate and receive equity if you are in a union.
Re: Unions Can Save Tech Workers and Tech Work
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's still not clear to me whether union protection is going to be worth the decrease in job creation. There's a reason Europe has way less IT positions with worse salaries.
Salary isn't even be all end all. In fact, higher salary might be worse, because in total you have to pay out of pocket for things your europeans counterparts. Therefore they should have more discretionary income compared to a US worker (I don't think I have to source this).
This gets trotted out every time, but let's be realistic: you can't pay your rent in European good vibes.