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On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

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Re: On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

#161

Post by Grimeton »

littlecranky67 wrote: post #82
develoopest wrote: post #5

I don't understand why ensuring general-purpose computing is not a priority of the European Union. All that talk about sovereignty, and we are giving full control of our digital lives to 2 American companies.

Because the EU wants attestation for age verification, digital surveillance and censorship, not free software platforms that wont implement any of those.

This.

These things wouldn't go away if the EU or a company within the EU would provide a phone OS.

They would just serve different masters.

Re: On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

#162

Post by Gander5739 »

Elfener wrote: post #18
Cider9986 wrote: post #8

GrapheneOS has minimal, private [1] system apps so you don't have to debloat anything yourself. Manual debloating is not a good solution at the user level. Some system apps are being overhauled, so that's something to look forward to. Gallery will be [2] based on ReFra [3]. [1] Except phone and messaging but that's the cell network. GrapheneOS recommends Signal/Molly or SimpleX instead. [2] https://nitter.net/Graphen…

GrapheneOS or other custom ROMs don't solve the actual problem that you can't just buy a smartphone and install any operating system like you can with an actual computer, despite technically being one. Also, GrapheneOS supports device attestation (the non-google kind at least), which is still ridiculous as such systems have no benefit to people, only to technofeudalist corporations.

> you can't just buy a smartphone and install any operating system like you can with an actual computer, despite technically being one.

What's stopping you from buying a phone, unlocking the bootloader, and flashing whatever ROM you want?

Re: On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

#163

Post by mosura »

inigyou wrote: post #136
mosura wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly your reading comprehension is not good today. They said if the government “drive the process of forking” which could mean encourage a group of academics to do it, or a commercial consortium. It does not mean the EU government take on the task themselves. * It is self evident from actual EU behaviour that any mobile os that gets to users will be legally required to be a surveillance disaster area, regardless…

If the EU government told a group of academics "hey, go make a phone" it wouldn't have mass surveillance. If it insisted on being closely involved in the process, then it would.

Do you think you would be allowed to sell such a phone to normal people in any serious quantity? (I know HN people get delusional about using laptops as mobile phones, but here is a hint: you wouldn’t. You would be hauled up for enabling distribution of CSAM etc until you stopped).

Look at how they treat Graphene, and that is an afternarket mod niche.

Re: On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

#164

Post by charcircuit »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #133

If you don't have root, you are not the device owner, you are a lessor to whatever companies and carriers are subsidizing your out of pocket costs. This includes iPhone and it's walled garden approach (delete Siri - you cannot, GBs of space is permanently wasted on most users and it still drains the battery when fully disabled). Locked, unlocked, and root are terms the general public has no clue about. Whenever someo…

Do you believe the same thing about a toaster that you don't have a root account for? Do you think people didn't own things before the idea of root was created in the 1970s?

Computers don't have to follow the same design choices as were done 50 years ago.

Re: On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

#165

Post by zb3 »

charcircuit wrote: post #164
1970-01-01 wrote: post #133

If you don't have root, you are not the device owner, you are a lessor to whatever companies and carriers are subsidizing your out of pocket costs. This includes iPhone and it's walled garden approach (delete Siri - you cannot, GBs of space is permanently wasted on most users and it still drains the battery when fully disabled). Locked, unlocked, and root are terms the general public has no clue about. Whenever someo…

Do you believe the same thing about a toaster that you don't have a root account for? Do you think people didn't own things before the idea of root was created in the 1970s? Computers don't have to follow the same design choices as were done 50 years ago.

If the toaster acts against my interest and I can't change its behaviour then yes, absolutely.

It doesn't have to be named root, the point is that my device should act in my interest to the fullest extent permitted by the law.

But those running illegal monopolies no longer fear the user and blantantly ignore their choices (yes vs "remind me later" is a good example), if I can't enforce my choice, I don't own that.

Re: On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

#166

Post by 1970-01-01 »

charcircuit wrote: post #164
1970-01-01 wrote: post #133

If you don't have root, you are not the device owner, you are a lessor to whatever companies and carriers are subsidizing your out of pocket costs. This includes iPhone and it's walled garden approach (delete Siri - you cannot, GBs of space is permanently wasted on most users and it still drains the battery when fully disabled). Locked, unlocked, and root are terms the general public has no clue about. Whenever someo…

Do you believe the same thing about a toaster that you don't have a root account for? Do you think people didn't own things before the idea of root was created in the 1970s? Computers don't have to follow the same design choices as were done 50 years ago.

Toasters are heating elements with slots for bread. The 70s saw ten men walk on the moon and return to Earth to tell us all about it. Whatever point you were trying to make wasn't made.

Re: On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

#167

Post by inigyou »

mosura wrote: post #163
inigyou wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the EU government told a group of academics "hey, go make a phone" it wouldn't have mass surveillance. If it insisted on being closely involved in the process, then it would.

Do you think you would be allowed to sell such a phone to normal people in any serious quantity? (I know HN people get delusional about using laptops as mobile phones, but here is a hint: you wouldn’t. You would be hauled up for enabling distribution of CSAM etc until you stopped). Look at how they treat Graphene, and that is an afternarket mod niche.

Yes, I do think you'd be allowed to sell a phone to normal people in serious quantity. The kerfuffle with Graphene was about whether or not they specifically targeted organised criminals, Anom-style. No charges were made - some idiot politician just assumed Graphene==Encrochat and made a public statement based on that.

Re: On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

#168

Post by handedness »

fsflover wrote: post #149
pitchlatte wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah but processors phone home anyway at a level beneath the OS and there’s no european chip development worth mentioning. so i’m not sure real sovereignty is ever going to be possible. crazy considering ASML being in europe.

> processors phone home anyway at a level beneath the OS Links?

My guess is he's talking about the management engine.

Which, if one's comfortable with the HAP bit flip as a solution to that problem, then one should arguably also be comfortable with bit flips controlling baseband radios which still haven't been demonstrated to transmit when disabled.

Re: On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

#169

Post by charcircuit »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #166
charcircuit wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you believe the same thing about a toaster that you don't have a root account for? Do you think people didn't own things before the idea of root was created in the 1970s? Computers don't have to follow the same design choices as were done 50 years ago.

Toasters are heating elements with slots for bread. The 70s saw ten men walk on the moon and return to Earth to tell us all about it. Whatever point you were trying to make wasn't made.

And phones run apps. Neither require root to be able to accomplish their designed purpose.

Re: On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

#170

Post by charcircuit »

zb3 wrote: post #165
charcircuit wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you believe the same thing about a toaster that you don't have a root account for? Do you think people didn't own things before the idea of root was created in the 1970s? Computers don't have to follow the same design choices as were done 50 years ago.

If the toaster acts against my interest and I can't change its behaviour then yes, absolutely. It doesn't have to be named root, the point is that my device should act in my interest to the fullest extent permitted by the law. But those running illegal monopolies no longer fear the user and blantantly ignore their choices (yes vs "remind me later" is a good example), if I can't enforce my choice, I don't own that.

Android in fact has an entire Settings app allowing users to configure a lot about the device. There are a lot of choices exposed to users. Exposing this ability to the user didn't require root.
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