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Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

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Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think it was just electricity. It could be just electricity, but when they try to divert hundreds of millions of gallons out of water scarce resources like the colorado river[1] in dry, HOT areas where water usage rises -- you can begin to understand why people are irritated. Even if you get promises of using closed systems, corporations are liars. I think these corporations do a lot of harm to their own ar…

This is about a DC in Nashville -- it is on the Cumberland river.

As someone who lives in the great lakes region, we don't assume that because the resource is large in comparison to a human being that it is an endless resource.

DCs operate at the scale of agriculture, even this one will consume/expel significant resources.

Are they asking for treated water? What's the concentration of residual metals, bromine and salts? Who is monitoring it?

It's inconvenient. Think of it as tech debt. You can either pay it down now, or you pay it down later.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of golf courses are owned by cities or other public entities.

Then they should be even easier to shut down if they're viewed as a wasteful use of water! I think the fact that they are not shut down is evidence that people do not in fact view them as such, or at least not as much people view data centers as a waste of water.

[deleted]

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#413
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1 million gallons is how much 33 people in the US use in a year. For a moment I was worried that this might be an average that includes indirect usage through industry and agriculture, but AFAICT no, it's in line with just residential usage, so good-on-ya for that. > I don't know what timeframe we are talking about here The utility claims it was 30m gallons over 4 months [0], and 90mgal/yr would be like ~3k individ…

I've been checking stats and comparing it with here (Spain) and I never thought the difference of residential water usage was so different. Average use of water per capita in Spain is about 47m3 a year, so a third of the USA. And that number is quite consistent around the EU, except for Greece and Cyprus, where it's about double or even a bit more.

Spain and EU are like eg Connecticut

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in commercial real and even I'm going to go NIMBY mode on this lol. This property shares a large boundary to the zoo and I have a very hard time believing you won't cause an impact (noise pollution eg) to the animals next door. Is there any evidence anywhere of a totally sound proof, unintrusive mega data center? I have not seen anything.

IMO noise pollution is the easiest one to solve: just put all the AC fans on the far side of the datacenter. If not enough, surround with noise absorbing panels. If not enough, just get a different fan design, more coolers, and run them at half speed. They can even afford Noctua :) I bet nearby rail yard produces way more loud noises. Datacenter is like the cleanest and most ecofriendly business you can imagine.

Nothing that uses as much power as a modern data center is anywhere close to the most clean eco friendly business imaginable. Even one on 100% renewables, which most very much are not, is hurting the environment far more than many industries. Green energy isn't "free", it's just less harmful than the alternatives.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling people with valid concerns insulting terms like nimby, and dismissing their reluctance to pay for your personal comfort is not well intentioned. A zombie is an unthinking creature blindly doing thr bidding of it's master. The AI zombies literally just spout the sam altman line without having ever once thought about the thing they are parroting. It's simple, the AI shit is hurting people, real people, right no…

> Calling people with valid concerns insulting terms like nimby, and dismissing their reluctance to pay for your personal comfort is not well intentioned. NIMBYs often refuse to accept practically any change, regardless of the benefits. This isn't limited to data centers being sited nearby: You see it in issues as petty as new pickleball courts. We also saw it for new power plants long before modern AI was a factor.…

>NIMBYs often refuse to accept practically any change, regardless of the benefits. This isn't limited to data centers being sited nearby: You see it in issues as petty as new pickleball courts. We also saw it for new power plants long before modern AI was a factor. This isn't new. I'm not saying you, personally, are a NIMBY, but it's undeniable that they exist. It's not personal, but I can tell it's touched a nerve.

No, see you're doing it again - there maybe a handfull of people opposed to all change. Usually it's some people don't want a particular thing, and a different group of people who don't want another thing. Dismissing them all as a single unified group of people opposed to all change is a disgusting contempt for everyone who disagrees with your comfort no matter what it may cost them personally.

> Back this up with facts. Raise the bar. > etc

We've seen thousands and thousands of jobs cut and people laid off for AI. Those people are bearing the cost of your personal desire for a little bit of comfort.

We've seen towns lose electricity contracts and the residents forced to scramble and pay higher costs because of the possiblility of datacenter contracts. This hurts a lot of people who were already at the edge of being able to afford basic life.

Sure, more generation may not need to pollute the atmosphere, but in the current moment it sure seems like the more generation in practice it is generators spewing exhaust into neighborhoods. This is happening right now, and it hurts people.

Im not opposed to AI. I'm opposed to the rush to get there at the expense of people who aren't benefiting from it. I don't care if some handful of people don't realize profits immediately, or if some small percentage of people don't get to have a slightly easier job.

The dismissal of these people's concerns as "just a made up group I call nimby's" being unreasonable is deplorable. It's an utter lack of regard for solving the problems in a reasonable way because you want your toy right now. The idea that we can add new datacenters because they aren't the biggest problem and only make the issues people are facing a little worse... well it's literally saying "lets make everything even worse for people since its already bad for them" and is just sick.

Choosing to push for new toy factories right now that worsen peoples problems instead of an approach the makes the world better for others is in fact inflicting damage in the name of your amusement.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#416
post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He's so evil but the vast majority of Americans can't give up his products? Hello maynmar genocide. Hello selling weight loss products to teenagers algorithms determined as having low self esteem. Yes, in winner takes all economy, one person can be prettt evil and have all tge economic power.

What complicity in such evil does a user of his products face, if any? Are most people evil then? If not, what excuse for them can you offer that does not rob them of their human agency? Or do you agree with another commenter that all users of his products are necessarily zombies? Speaking of such creatures: If someone trolls you on his platform, is that his fault too? What conduct should he control on such a wide pl…

This sounds like a pure trolling? Why do you do it on behalf of Zuckenberg? Yes, HE is complicit in those.

Facebook knew what is going on.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#417
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny thing about data center concerns in Chicagoland, where I'm hearing it, is that data centers are better neighbors than almost any other commercial real estate. The data centers in Aurora are surrounded with prairie green space; everything else, including the nicest office buildings, are a sea of eyesore asphalt parking lots. I get there can be real concerns, locally-specific, about energy usage (again: they…

The reputation of datacenters precludes them due to some high-profile abuses of locals, as well as cities overcommitting brittle and unprepared infrastructure to them. Consumer energy prices in 13+ states hiked because the grid was unable to meet the sudden demand. SpaceX's datacenter in Memphis used gas turbines to rapidly deploy Colossus before the grid could be upgraded, which resulted in an increase in local air…

> ...which resulted in an increase in local air emissions that was technically illegal.

Isn't it technically legal, but obviously offends the spirit of the law (and being a good neighbor) by driving a bus through a loophole?

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Calling people with valid concerns insulting terms like nimby, and dismissing their reluctance to pay for your personal comfort is not well intentioned. NIMBYs often refuse to accept practically any change, regardless of the benefits. This isn't limited to data centers being sited nearby: You see it in issues as petty as new pickleball courts. We also saw it for new power plants long before modern AI was a factor.…

>NIMBYs often refuse to accept practically any change, regardless of the benefits. This isn't limited to data centers being sited nearby: You see it in issues as petty as new pickleball courts. We also saw it for new power plants long before modern AI was a factor. This isn't new. I'm not saying you, personally, are a NIMBY, but it's undeniable that they exist. It's not personal, but I can tell it's touched a nerve.…

> Dismissing them all as a single unified group of people opposed to all change is a disgusting contempt for everyone who disagrees with your comfort no matter what it may cost them personally.

That may be your personal interpretation of it, but it's not my intent.

> We've seen thousands and thousands of jobs cut and people laid off for AI. Those people are bearing the cost of your personal desire for a little bit of comfort.

> We've seen towns lose electricity contracts and the residents forced to scramble and pay higher costs because of the possiblility of datacenter contracts. This hurts a lot of people who were already at the edge of being able to afford basic life.

I'll ask again for data and evidence, particularly evidence that people who were "laid off for AI" were both 1/actually laid off for AI (as opposed to some other root cause) and 2/unable to get new jobs, and that 3/people were forced into bankruptcy because their electricity bills went up solely in mere anticipation of new datacenter buildouts. If you can't provide it, I'm not going to continue with this conversation. I refuse to engage with people who claim knowledge with absolute certainty but who can't back their claims up.

There's a lot of reasonable worry about these possibilities, to be sure, but whether the worst has come to pass is, to my knowledge, still very much subject to debate. AFAIK nobody's quality of life has been significantly altered because a data center was stood up in an industrial or agricultural zone nearby. Happy to be proven wrong though.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#419
post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO noise pollution is the easiest one to solve: just put all the AC fans on the far side of the datacenter. If not enough, surround with noise absorbing panels. If not enough, just get a different fan design, more coolers, and run them at half speed. They can even afford Noctua :) I bet nearby rail yard produces way more loud noises. Datacenter is like the cleanest and most ecofriendly business you can imagine.

Nothing that uses as much power as a modern data center is anywhere close to the most clean eco friendly business imaginable. Even one on 100% renewables, which most very much are not, is hurting the environment far more than many industries. Green energy isn't "free", it's just less harmful than the alternatives.

Ok, what large business would you say is more eco friendly?

A fun story, for electric generation, Washington state produces and exports a lot of electricity because they are blessed with convenient hydropower. But WA still don't want to build data centers for some reason, even though they a the best positioned to.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#420
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NIMBYs are the reason San Francisco doesn't have massive freeways splitting through the center of it. Sometimes NIMBYs get things right

Didn't the Loma Prieta earthquake do that?

No it was the Freeway Revolt
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