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Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

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Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#341

Post by dqv »

tptacek wrote: post #78
mixdup wrote: post #24

I don't know what DC Blox was going to put in this particular datacenter, but they are a "traditional" colocation datacenter company. Maybe this one would've been superdense GPUs with a jet engine as electrical generator causing all kinds of noise, but it's also just as likely this would've been a project that 5 years ago no one would've batted an eye over, and wouldn't cause any issues in the local neighborhood That…

The funny thing about data center concerns in Chicagoland, where I'm hearing it, is that data centers are better neighbors than almost any other commercial real estate. The data centers in Aurora are surrounded with prairie green space; everything else, including the nicest office buildings, are a sea of eyesore asphalt parking lots. I get there can be real concerns, locally-specific, about energy usage (again: they…

> The data centers in Aurora are surrounded with prairie green space

I'm skeptical that they're actually surrounded by American prairie. What are the addresses of some of the data centers you're talking about?

Edit: I just see traditional American landscaping surrounding the CyrusOne data center in Aurora. I don't really see any native forbs or native grasses and it has a bunch of trees... where's the prairie?

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#342

Post by tecleandor »

Terr_ wrote: post #279
creato wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what timeframe we are talking about here, but 1 million gallons is how much 33 people in the US use in a year. It's really not that much water.

> 1 million gallons is how much 33 people in the US use in a year. For a moment I was worried that this might be an average that includes indirect usage through industry and agriculture, but AFAICT no, it's in line with just residential usage, so good-on-ya for that. > I don't know what timeframe we are talking about here The utility claims it was 30m gallons over 4 months [0], and 90mgal/yr would be like ~3k individ…

I've been checking stats and comparing it with here (Spain) and I never thought the difference of residential water usage was so different.

Average use of water per capita in Spain is about 47m3 a year, so a third of the USA. And that number is quite consistent around the EU, except for Greece and Cyprus, where it's about double or even a bit more.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#343

Post by adamtaylor_13 »

Terr_ wrote: post #254
ashleyn wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reputation of datacenters precludes them due to some high-profile abuses of locals, as well as cities overcommitting brittle and unprepared infrastructure to them. Consumer energy prices in 13+ states hiked because the grid was unable to meet the sudden demand. SpaceX's datacenter in Memphis used gas turbines to rapidly deploy Colossus before the grid could be upgraded, which resulted in an increase in local air…

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Do you have proof that people are bribing the federal government to ignore federal law?

That seems like quite the accusation and I haven't heard anything about that.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#344

Post by joatmon-snoo »

techpression wrote: post #280
namdnay wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I mean is that it’s got nothing to do with data centers. Saying “data centers pollute water” is misleading, in these situations 1) we’re talking about people pulling unfiltered untreated well water 2) any building would have had exactly the same effect.

What? How is a data center that runs insane amounts of water through it every single day the same as a warehouse with a tap and bathroom? And sure, a rocket launch pad would also cause issues, but now it’s a data center that is doing it, let’s not argue fictional realities.

It’s not: the datacenter likely consumes less.

Datacenters (1) use non-potable water during normal operation and (2) return most of the water they use to the water system, instead of consuming it (as opposed to, say, a golf course).

I have yet to read anyone more compelling than Andy Masley on this: https://blog.andymasley.com/p/empire-of-ai-is-wildly-mislead...

(This isn’t a topic I know much about personally, so am open to being persuaded otherwise!)

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#345

Post by adamtaylor_13 »

hall0ween wrote: post #237
haunter wrote: post #205

Same city: >The 60,000-seat stadium is projected to cost $2.1 billion, including $1.26 billion of public money—the largest stadium subsidy in U.S. history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Stadium_(2027)

Amazing that the new stadium has less capacity too

They want it to look more full because no one likes watching the Titans suck wind year after year, so the old stadium was laughably empty when the cameras panned over the stands.

I'm not joking. This is the reason I heard for them making it smaller.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#346

Post by techpression »

joatmon-snoo wrote: post #344
techpression wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? How is a data center that runs insane amounts of water through it every single day the same as a warehouse with a tap and bathroom? And sure, a rocket launch pad would also cause issues, but now it’s a data center that is doing it, let’s not argue fictional realities.

It’s not: the datacenter likely consumes less. Datacenters (1) use non-potable water during normal operation and (2) return most of the water they use to the water system, instead of consuming it (as opposed to, say, a golf course). I have yet to read anyone more compelling than Andy Masley on this: https://blog.andymasley.com/p/empire-of-ai-is-wildly-mislead... (This isn’t a topic I know much about personally, so am…

I didn’t get far until the semantics fall apart, you don’t care if it’s consumption or not when you don’t have water in your tap. And it’s all based on theory, these plants are using systems far under dimensioned for the task, which is never a good thing. The problem with proponents for these behemoths is that they are all about theory and don’t live anywhere near the life they say is so great.

https://youtu.be/2Eltf06-NiQ

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#347

Post by adamtaylor_13 »

hackernud3s wrote: post #260

I think it's ironic that we have no problem putting DCs next to a prison but god forbid we put them next to a zoo which is the same thing but for animals.

Prison is where we put people who have broken laws. A zoo is primarily where we put animals who are incapable of surviving in the wild.

It is also a place where the next generation can learn the wonder and beauty of nature.

They also tend to work closely with conservation efforts worldwide.

So... yeahhh, no. Not at all the same.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#348

Post by pjc50 »

vidarh wrote: post #272
mixdup wrote: post #24

I don't know what DC Blox was going to put in this particular datacenter, but they are a "traditional" colocation datacenter company. Maybe this one would've been superdense GPUs with a jet engine as electrical generator causing all kinds of noise, but it's also just as likely this would've been a project that 5 years ago no one would've batted an eye over, and wouldn't cause any issues in the local neighborhood That…

We've "imported" this concern to the UK too, largely driven by the same issues seemingly whipped up by US lack of regulation much more than local examples (that's not to say there have been no cases of bad buildouts here). Many of the people now extremely opposed to data centres seem to believe the UK didn't have any data centres recently, never mind that you can pass by data centres in e.g. London Docklands and mist…

The power supply issue is very real, though. UK has expensive electricity and high-megawattage data centers are obviously not going to help with that.

(The water issue doesn't pass the smell test for me because I expected data centers to be closed loop, but if it does apply? London is currently on a hosepipe ban!)

Let's not forget that some of this is a proxy issue for the downstream impacts of AI, spam, job destruction, community disruption, etc.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#349

Post by sophacles »

otterley wrote: post #182
sophacles wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always fun to watch AI zombies wrestle with the idea that sometimes the real humans have different priorities than they do. Usually people are against a lot of those power projects because those very same projects also seem to always raise rates and never deliver the promises of long-term lower rates.

Success doesn’t always look like lower rates, particularly when demand is ever-growing (even when there aren’t new data centers). Success looks like rates not going up faster than inflation, and reliable delivery. I remember well the rolling blackouts in CA in the late 1990s and that sucked . Even the ones in Texas weren’t that long ago. Also, calling well-intended people with whom you disagree “zombies” is inappropr…

Calling people with valid concerns insulting terms like nimby, and dismissing their reluctance to pay for your personal comfort is not well intentioned.

A zombie is an unthinking creature blindly doing thr bidding of it's master. The AI zombies literally just spout the sam altman line without having ever once thought about the thing they are parroting.

It's simple, the AI shit is hurting people, real people, right now. You might think that in the long term it makes everyones life better, but that doesn't change the short term. If you're OK with making large numbers of people suffer for your mild increase in comfort, and when you look in the mirror and really think your indifferent or happy about the damage you're helping inflict in swathes of the population... Well then you're a monster.

Quit trying to force other people to take the consequences of your desires, and instead go get a datacenter in your back yard. Beg for generators to pollute your air first.

Re: Nashville uses eminent domain to block data center near zoo

#350

Post by godwinson__4-8 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #283
godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The modern American standard of life is based on global integration and state power. If you want to go back to some Garden of Eden fiction regarding Plymouth Rock based on the propagandizing of America's first nepo president you will not find much competition in your pursuit of a life of poverty and subsistence farming. Go log off and enjoy the woods. Or get serious and propose a plan for continued American economic…

>The modern American standard of life is based on global integration The United States is virtually the least trade dependent country in the world[1] which is why you frequently see American governments wield trade policy as a weapon. Economically the US is practically self sufficient. And insofar as the broad prosperity and provision of good jobs is concerned, those haven't improved in the computer age, they've been…

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