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On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

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Re: On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

#91
post #86
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is why everyone gives up on doing anything while standing around complaining that no one does the right thing. What is so pernicious about the EU approach is the enthusiasm and efficiency with which it stops anyone from doing anything, while simultaneously attempting to regulate what everyone else in the world can do. If they put even a small part of that energy into encouraging the right thing to happen the…

Not really. They weren't saying if it existed in the EU it'd have to surveil. They were saying if the EU government created it it'd have to surveil.

Honestly your reading comprehension is not good today.

They said if the government “drive the process of forking” which could mean encourage a group of academics to do it, or a commercial consortium. It does not mean the EU government take on the task themselves. *

It is self evident from actual EU behaviour that any mobile os that gets to users will be legally required to be a surveillance disaster area, regardless of origin, and the only people that have prevented this already are evil US corporations.

* edit to add, the EU did encourage many technical efforts vital to the mobile phone industry at different times with a mix of funding, political support etc. The Arm people would tell you AMBA (a standard relating to SoC component integration) wouldn’t exist without this, and yet no one would classify this as “a creation of the EU” but very much enabled by them. For whatever reason since about 2005 their strategic ability in this area has not merely disappeared but become actively wrong.

Re: On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

#92
Looking at the comment in the actual code change:

"If we are being asked to delete a system app for just one user set flag so it disables rather than reverting to system version of the app."

... Joy. This makes the 'nondisable' list an even more unhinged malware delivery mechanism for operators, because you won't be able to disable the carrier shitware app and it gets updates!

It's time to start cracking down on malware preloads on phones and the over-subsidization of consumer products. We need to stop accepting $50 smartphones and $100 smart TVs that are crammed with a few hundred dollars of profit for the manufacturer to shove ads and malware at you nonstop out of the box.

Re: On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

#93
post #6

I don't understand why ensuring general-purpose computing is not a priority of the European Union. All that talk about sovereignty, and we are giving full control of our digital lives to 2 American companies.

It's a regulated market economy. Someone has to actually make the product. They can't force someone to make a product. There's MNT in the EU.

They can’t force someone to make a product, but they can force someone to choose between making a product or exiting the EU market.

In practice they’re the same thing.

Re: On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Device attestation is how you can use private keys you don't actually have access to. It has a lot of value to literally anyone who wants to store tokens or use one time authentication codes. Linux folks need to implement the full stack and offer an open alternative to payments, secrets, and tokens. In the age of LLMs there is no excuse. It is annoying as hell that I can't buy a System76 or Framework laptop with a fi…

Framework has a fingerprint sensor. [1] [1] https://frame.work/products/fingerprint-reader-kit?v=FRANTD0...

Lots of laptop vendors do. Very few integrate fingerprint scanners into any kind of secure authentication flow, though. There are decent fingerprint drivers for various brands, but connecting fingerprints to authentication beyond basic login requires manual setup.

You don't actually need biometrics to use key material, that's what (f)TPMs are for. They're not set up to be usable out of the box in any Linux distro I've tried, though.

Re: On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

#95
post #55

Seriously question; why is the answer to this not a phone that can just run GNU/Linux? Is it just the lack of application support? I mean, you’ll have blobs, but at least at the os level you’ll have options? Can’t you run an android sandbox in Linux? Docker phone? I’m sure I’m missing something here, but what?

Energy efficient Linux is hard. Vendors aren't doing the hard work for anything but Android. So, most hardware won't work (for more than a few hours) using normal Linux.

postmarketOS and other projects are working tirelessly at bringing Linux to phones. SailfishOS too. Plenty of Android apps even run inside these runtimes.

App compatibility relies on apps supporting (very) old Android versions, though. It's also flaky in many areas and with how few Linux phones have decent GPU support, there's also a performance challenge there.

For some apps, running on Linux doesn't work because the app developers chose to only run on Play Certified, original firmware (Play Integrity and friends). Those apps cannot be patched to work right unless they implemented their checks badly.

Re: On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

#96
post #65
post #55

Seriously question; why is the answer to this not a phone that can just run GNU/Linux? Is it just the lack of application support? I mean, you’ll have blobs, but at least at the os level you’ll have options? Can’t you run an android sandbox in Linux? Docker phone? I’m sure I’m missing something here, but what?

Many of the apps that people need to have smartphone to access will not run in an Android sandbox. Banking apps are the obvious example. Not to mention that the options outside iOS and Android are slim and for the most part bad (or atleast simply even worse than those).

Is it because the sandbox is bad and does not perfectly simulate the computing environment of a real device?

Because to me it sounds like a cat and mouse game that Google and banking apps are destined to lose.

Re: On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

#97

I don't understand why ensuring general-purpose computing is not a priority of the European Union. All that talk about sovereignty, and we are giving full control of our digital lives to 2 American companies.

Because the EU wants attestation for age verification, digital surveillance and censorship, not free software platforms that wont implement any of those.

EU does not want that.

Only a few politicians, some of whom happen to be currently in power, in the EU or elsewhere, are pushing for those agendas. But fortunately, they do not represent the majority.

Re: On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

#98
post #66
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no shortage of general-purpose computing hardware in the EU. If you need some general-purpose compute to make a car, an oven, or a phone, you can get it. That consumers mostly buy special-purpose devices that don't always allow them to make full use of the possibilities of the hardware is hardly a sovereignity challenge.

Show me where I can get a general-purpose computing hardware with 8GB+ of RAM that fits in my pocket and has a touchscreen.

My recently-purchased Google Pixel 10 Pro has an unlockable bootloader. (Although it may be locked if you buy it through a provider).

And, for a nominal one-time payment, you can register as a developer, and compile, install and run absolutely anything you want on a non-rooted Android phone with a locked bootloader (within the constraints of the security system, which is, of course, A Good Thing).

Re: On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the EU wants attestation for age verification, digital surveillance and censorship, not free software platforms that wont implement any of those.

EU does not want that. Only a few politicians, some of whom happen to be currently in power, in the EU or elsewhere, are pushing for those agendas. But fortunately, they do not represent the majority.

If the majority is unable to do anything then their opposition doesn't really matter.

Re: On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that was the original android phone idea. Get a hackable open device that you can write apps for your self. Even attach third party hardware to it for extra functionality with lots of customisation. But this idea has mutated quite a bit.

I fully agree with it. But I think Google also understands that the platform is unatractive for businesses. In my case I just don't do Android app because I know it is easy to just take and hack. It is not the case on iPhone. And my app is one time payment so the ability to just copy out the APK leaves me not doing an app at all...

The people that go through the trouble of installing apks from random websites to not pay $1 are in the minority. What's more, most of them wouldn't pay that dollar if they couldn't find the cracked apk. So the only thing you're realistically doing is cutting yourself off of a huge market. Convenience sells, the Play Store does that
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