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What I love about Django

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Re: What I love about Django

#81

Post by zbentley »

rob wrote: post #53
_old_dude_ wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not hate, it's not wanted to be associated with: see https://victorwynne.com/dhh/

I need to go look up the CEO of my refrigerator, dishwasher, couch, car, cell phone, TV, shirt and jeans, and oat milk to see if they said anything I disagree with on social media so I can boycott them.

I mean, that might not be the worst thing?

Like, if you have something you regularly spend a lot of money on, it might be worth spending 2min on the Wikipedia article about it’s manufacturer to verify that it’s not made by child slaves or someone who sends all their profits to the KKK or whatever.

Doing that seems like basic prudence for an interconnected world, and a far cry from like … digging around Reddit threads looking for reasons to be outraged.

I have no opinion on DHH. I do think it’s good, actually, that lots of people are incorporating politics into their product use/purchase choices these days. Those decisions always had political consequences, so it’s good that people are now considering that.

Some people definitely have rubrics for making those decisions that I think are stupid, and some people do it dishonestly (e.g. performative public outrage over a random OSS contributor’s transphobic tweet while spending money on Harry Potter shit). But the fact that people are increasingly considering the social context of product use is still good, dumbasses would find other ways to be dumb regardless.

Re: What I love about Django

#82

Post by mystifyingpoi »

rob wrote: post #53
_old_dude_ wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not hate, it's not wanted to be associated with: see https://victorwynne.com/dhh/

I need to go look up the CEO of my refrigerator, dishwasher, couch, car, cell phone, TV, shirt and jeans, and oat milk to see if they said anything I disagree with on social media so I can boycott them.

Unironically, AI could automate the boycott.

Re: What I love about Django

#83

Post by thraxil »

stana wrote: post #55

There are a lot of things to like about Django. Remember being blown away when I discovered Django Content Types[1]. Basically generic foreign keys to any model type. [1]: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/6.0/ref/contrib/contenttyp...

As someone who's used Django since 0.97 and loves it, Content Types are one of those features that I recommend avoiding. It looks amazing at first but you will eventually regret it.

Re: What I love about Django

#84

Post by FranOntanaya »

pmontra wrote: post #73
physicsguy wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd have written Instagram which was released in 2010 in Elixir which wasn't released to the public til 2012?

So Rails or some PHP framework. It was slightly too early to go full Node. Django was a little unusual too among the developers I knew. Java was still a thing but more for finance related projects.

Well 2010 PHP and the frameworks at the time were still going through the 5.x desert journey, and the prospects weren't entirely clear with the cancellation of PHP 6, so you wouldn't fault your 2010 self for not trying to push some Drupal/Joomla/Magento to that scale.

Kinda took until Facebook showing off Hacklang in 2014 for people to believe in getting more canonical programming features into PHP and make it more performant. So it would have been a good decision if one could predict 10 years into the future, but nobody can.

Re: What I love about Django

#85

Post by 0x4d4c »

tclancy wrote: post #68
thraxil wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having that in mind, the next project was entirely in Pylons. All was good, until we were asked to add Unicode support. How long ago was this? I feel like unicode has kind of been a solved problem in Python since python3 came out. In the python2 days it was, indeed, miserable.

Pylons was a long time ago. Definitely Python 2. The era just after (?) or maybe same as TurboGears and CherryPy.

Yup, Python 2. I don't recall the exact stack, pretty sure I have it somewhere though. Circa 2009/2010

Re: What I love about Django

#86

Post by 0x4d4c »

panzerboy wrote: post #27
BoumTAC wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The DHH hate is absolutely crazy on HN. I don't understand how people can be so out of touch.

I don't hate the guy (I don't know him personally so I cannot hate him), I just disagree with his opinions and I personally don't want to use anything that he makes or endorses. Easy as that. I know that there are other people contributing to Rails, and that's their choice. Other people stopped contributing once DHH showed his true nature.

I presume, that you're not shopping anything on shopify?

Re: What I love about Django

#87

Post by 0x4d4c »

owebmaster wrote: post #23
0x4d4c wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And great bunch of other, awesome people. I can take an argument of not buying a Tesla in order to avoid supporting Elons financial empire, but not using Rails because DHH made it is really hard to comprehend.

Why is it hard? Elon got all the power he wanted. Not giving DHH the same free passes Elon got is a very reasonable take.

And boycotting open source project is the way to go?

Re: What I love about Django

#88

Post by strogonoff »

sgt wrote: post #60
kitsune_ wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ORM is really not good in my opinion because it is ActiveRecord'ish and has all its downsides. I wouldn't use Django for any moderately complex domain. But even with simpler CRUD style apps I don't really see the point in it.

I mean if you're doing it this way, you're really not applying best practices as a developer (never mind as a Django developer). > Models being passed around everywhere, queries happening everywhere. No, as a developer you still need to be 100% aware of the underlying queries and potential performance issues. No excuse for N+1 problems. ORM is not an excuse to be lazy, but I admit it will probably catch quite a few d…

Django allowing queries to be anywhere is more or less in line with Python’s overarching “we’re all consenting adults here” ethos. There’s probably one correct way to do it, but if you want to shoot yourself in the foot then here’s your gun.

It definitely takes a bit of discipline. The key layers are somewhat easy to manage—middleware, context processors, views, template tags—but I’ve seen some hairy lasagne further obscuring where the queries happen on top of that. A well-documented abstraction can be useful, but if it is possible to keep it simple and obvious then that’s the way to go.

(Third-party dependencies can further complicate things, but at least you can expect a library using ORM to be in the installed apps list.)

Re: What I love about Django

#89

Post by dofm »

pmontra wrote: post #73
physicsguy wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd have written Instagram which was released in 2010 in Elixir which wasn't released to the public til 2012?

So Rails or some PHP framework. It was slightly too early to go full Node. Django was a little unusual too among the developers I knew. Java was still a thing but more for finance related projects.

Rails was fully into growing pains and maintainability crises (some large rails codebases took years to migrate) and PHP was in transition; some good things by then but it was not what it is now.

Re: What I love about Django

#90

Post by thunky »

pmontra wrote: post #73
physicsguy wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd have written Instagram which was released in 2010 in Elixir which wasn't released to the public til 2012?

So Rails or some PHP framework. It was slightly too early to go full Node. Django was a little unusual too among the developers I knew. Java was still a thing but more for finance related projects.

All of the gripes OP has with Django are arguably worse in Rails.
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