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What I love about Django

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Re: What I love about Django

#41

Post by DarkNova6 »

JodieBenitez wrote: post #35
DarkNova6 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seriously don't get why Django ORM is using the Active Record pattern. This is such a stupid footgun that trivially causes horrible performance and BEGS you to cause n+1 problems. Never in my life did I have a problem with lazy loading causing unbearable performance until I joined a Python Django team. I really tried to find sympathy for the "dynamically typed" folks (please spare me saying Python is technically st…

> BEGS you to cause n+1 problems select_related, prefetch_related. n+1 problems be gone.

You misunderstand. And that is exactly the problem.

We did do that and that's why our queries ended up being several lines long. But if you missed just one model? You openly walk a knife again.

It's a mess and it only gets longer and longer. I ended the project with having some proper aggregates, only for that to be thrown out of the window by the guy after me.

Re: What I love about Django

#42

Post by Nextgrid »

panzerboy wrote: post #14
0x4d4c wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that? What's wrong with Rails?

It's made by DHH.

Some people are just looking to be offended. You don’t have to read or agree with his drivel to use his software.

(Do you also check out the blogs/social media of every dev involved in every library you use?)

Re: What I love about Django

#43

Post by phn »

The only part I don't really agree with, is the avoidance of app separation and signals. It's one of the cleanest ways to decouple your modules and keep some level of sanity in a medium-sized codebase. It comes down to deciding what parts really need to depend on others and be very explicit about that.

I generally end up with a few core apps with the main data objects that a lot of other "parallel" ones depend on, a bit "star shaped". And then a few "aggregator" apps that cover functionality that needs to work across multiple of these domains. I see it all as an extension of how you think about your data model.

Re: What I love about Django

#44

Post by DarkNova6 »

senko wrote: post #38
DarkNova6 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seriously don't get why Django ORM is using the Active Record pattern. This is such a stupid footgun that trivially causes horrible performance and BEGS you to cause n+1 problems. Never in my life did I have a problem with lazy loading causing unbearable performance until I joined a Python Django team. I really tried to find sympathy for the "dynamically typed" folks (please spare me saying Python is technically st…

Yes, if you attempt to use Django like you'd use your typical Java, Swift, C#, or Objective-C framework, you're not going to have a good time. I've seen the horrors Java devs start doing on a Python project when trying to "fix" things, where by "fix" they mean use patterns they had to in previous gigs. It's a different world.

Having basic defensive programming, some simple classes instead of dicts everywhere and avoiding n+1 is a "different world"?

Re: What I love about Django

#45

Post by zelphirkalt »

Oxodao wrote: post #33
matsemann wrote: post #16

I really like the ORM and the migrations, but some parts I really dislike. They're maybe not Django's fault, but how it's used most places: * Models being passed around everywhere, queries happening everywhere. I prefer having a dedicated service/selector layer to do those things. Then convert to pydantic objects or something that's passed around further. * Corollary, but adding stuff to querymanagers quickly goes ou…

I despise django-orm, doctrine is so much better. Like, who thought that using named arguments to do stuff was a proper way ??? `.filter(created_at__gte=XXXXX)` why? The rest of the framework is great but the ORM is definetly its weakest point.

I find those double underscore kwargs weird too, and would prefer to simply pass a lambda instead. What is your idea, what would you suggest?

Re: What I love about Django

#47

Post by ustad »

weatherlite wrote: post #4
stavros wrote: post #2

I agree, Django is just fantastic. Nothing is perfect, but Django is just really well-designed, with components that fit together naturally into a balanced whole.

Just wanted to say I saw your last stand up , you're hilarious!

Stavros Halkias! Very funny guy. And also a maker and HN god! Never would have thought.

Re: What I love about Django

#48

Post by zelphirkalt »

Klonoar wrote: post #19

I feel sufficiently old after having read South in this article. Good god what a throwback. Django is hands down one of my favorite frameworks ever created, and the only one I still reach for in some contexts. For a lot of projects I use it to drive database migrations, and stand up an easy admin portal for others to use - then anything else is driven by an API layer written in (e.g) Rust. I haven't had to care about…

How do your API calls get into the Django app(s)? Do you define the API as well on the Django side (duplicating the API)? Or is there some tool that translates the Rust API calls for Django efficiently?

Re: What I love about Django

#49

Post by almost »

JodieBenitez wrote: post #3

Most loved feature, for me: No dramatic changes, just sane and careful evolution.

This is so important. I've been using Django for around 20 years and my current code base is 10 years old. Not having to do major rewrites or stick on outdated versions really matters.

Re: What I love about Django

#50

Post by braiamp »

kitsune_ wrote: post #39
matsemann wrote: post #16

I really like the ORM and the migrations, but some parts I really dislike. They're maybe not Django's fault, but how it's used most places: * Models being passed around everywhere, queries happening everywhere. I prefer having a dedicated service/selector layer to do those things. Then convert to pydantic objects or something that's passed around further. * Corollary, but adding stuff to querymanagers quickly goes ou…

The ORM is really not good in my opinion because it is ActiveRecord'ish and has all its downsides. I wouldn't use Django for any moderately complex domain. But even with simpler CRUD style apps I don't really see the point in it.

What would you have done Instagram from instead of Django?
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