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No Data Centers in My Backyard

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Re: No Data Centers in My Backyard

#91

Post by ptero »

epolanski wrote: post #32
zkmon wrote: post #8

People in UK opposed train tracks in steam engine days, saying that the train engine sound scares their horses and cattle. Ofcourse data centers are far worse. But it is amusing to see how humanity continues to oppose tech and the tech buldozes anyway, like a evil monster.

It's not about opposing data centers, it's about opposing them close to where you live . There's now a gargantuan amount of documentation about their impact: - insane noise levels 24/7, you can hear them even at miles away - virtually no jobs brought to the place, besides some construction work early on - massive drain of local resources - massive eye sore Like, I'm not against data centers per se, but you tell me th…

> There's now a gargantuan amount of documentation about their impact: - insane noise levels 24/7, you can hear them even at miles away

Can you share a link or two to this? Hearing a data center from miles away sounds suspicious.

Re: No Data Centers in My Backyard

#92

Post by broken-kebab »

Planktonne wrote: post #10

The article is interesting, but I think it dances around what should be a central point, only approaching it obliquely. A lot of the opposition to data centers isn't about specific claimed benefits/drawbacks, but the fact that the people behind them are known to be bad actors. > My conversations make me wonder if the technical content of data center deals is mostly beside the point. Closed-loop cooling systems? “I do…

"We can't trust them" is the foundation of practically every conspiracy theory, though, from times immemorial. I remember people protesting against cell towers, and it was exactly what their arguments were built around: "We don't believe this thing won't fry our brains". It was the same before with electrical lines, and I guess steam power had its share too. Not telling a concerned citizen is obliged to trust everyone, marketing & propaganda were part of "underlying reality" for centuries at least. But frankly, you made it sound like it's a novel thing, a dark omen of evil AI times, or something.

Re: No Data Centers in My Backyard

#93

Post by [deleted] »

mapontosevenths wrote: post #90
inigyou wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw one news report featuring a reporter casually holding a decibel meter. 55dB at a distance of about a kilometer.

55db is lower than the noise floor in the average office. They were probably just measuring the background noise of regular-ass being outside. For perspective, the inside of your home is probably about 40. When I turn on my box fan it's about 55. That said they can be loud when the generators are running. It's possible that when the grid can't keep up the volume goes up, but thats not meant to be a long term state.

[deleted]

Re: No Data Centers in My Backyard

#94

Post by Planktonne »

broken-kebab wrote: post #92
Planktonne wrote: post #10

The article is interesting, but I think it dances around what should be a central point, only approaching it obliquely. A lot of the opposition to data centers isn't about specific claimed benefits/drawbacks, but the fact that the people behind them are known to be bad actors. > My conversations make me wonder if the technical content of data center deals is mostly beside the point. Closed-loop cooling systems? “I do…

"We can't trust them" is the foundation of practically every conspiracy theory, though, from times immemorial. I remember people protesting against cell towers, and it was exactly what their arguments were built around: "We don't believe this thing won't fry our brains". It was the same before with electrical lines, and I guess steam power had its share too. Not telling a concerned citizen is obliged to trust everyon…

This is an example of the same problem as the article; you're treating trust as entirely unrelated to reality. It can get out-of-step, but that's not the only possibility, and it's not the one we're facing here.

The problem with conspiracy theories is not that they're based on a lack of trust, but that they're not rational. Sometimes a lack of trust is perfectly rational.

Cell towers don't actually fry your brains. Steam powered trains don't move so fast you suffocate. However, the big tech CEOs are absolutely going to take your data and use it against you. They are going to build data centers that harm your community. The fear here is reasonable and evidenced.

This isn't unique to AI, but AI is the current iteration of the same problem. Sometimes people distrust outsiders because they're star-bellied sneetches, but sometimes they distrust them because they're the British empire. You can't treat all distrust as unreasoning.

Re: No Data Centers in My Backyard

#95

Post by mapontosevenths »

skywhopper wrote: post #83
mapontosevenths wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in a data center for a decade. None of the neighbors even knew what it was. One actually stopped me to ask. It was very loud inside, but you couldn't hear it from outside unless the power failed and the generators came on.

Yes, the new ones often use dirty generators 24/7, and probably will for years. They are loud and toxic to the local community.

The answer to that is to outlaw running noisy generators. It probably already is. Most places already have noise pollution laws designed to harass teenagers with loud music. They should enforce them.

Force them to either install mufflers and proper exhausts on their generators or build their own power infrastructure. They don't now because nobody makes them and it would cost money.

Re: No Data Centers in My Backyard

#96

Post by StilesCrisis »

mapontosevenths wrote: post #80
inigyou wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The new AI ones are built below minimum standards as a cash grab and they somehow manage to be as loud as jet engines. I have no idea how they manage to achieve that, but I try to avoid denying reality. I agree that an ordinary non-AI data center is no worse than an office building without the people, but that isn't what's happening right now.

> somehow manage to be as loud as jet engines Thats what anti-AI activists say. A decibel meter is about $20. For some reason the people in those videos never have one.

Here: https://www.reddit.com/r/oddlyterrifying/s/RAUfB2WAMD

In this case it's a constant 60dB metallic whine. I would be livid if they built this near my home.

Re: No Data Centers in My Backyard

#97

Post by StilesCrisis »

mapontosevenths wrote: post #90
inigyou wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw one news report featuring a reporter casually holding a decibel meter. 55dB at a distance of about a kilometer.

55db is lower than the noise floor in the average office. They were probably just measuring the background noise of regular-ass being outside. For perspective, the inside of your home is probably about 40. When I turn on my box fan it's about 55. That said they can be loud when the generators are running. It's possible that when the grid can't keep up the volume goes up, but thats not meant to be a long term state.

We're not talking 55dB peaks--it's a constant 55dB _tone_, and not a pleasant one.

Re: No Data Centers in My Backyard

#98

Post by mirzap »

inigyou wrote: post #65
mirzap wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of people opposed AC current, cars, steam engines, rail tracks, airplanes, computers, the internet, and so on. There was always irrational fear present with new tech advances. People opposing data centers will not look any less foolish than those who opposed AC current.

I need evidence for all of these please.

Search engines are free.

Re: No Data Centers in My Backyard

#99

Post by inemesitaffia »

ModernMech wrote: post #82
ianm218 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re talking about rural Wisconsin - there is no world where you need to make a trade off between having school and a data center. Put a school in one field and a data center in a field further away. It just seems like you should tax the data center and then build a school or whatever else you think would help the local economy.

A data center turns the whole town into an industrial zone because of the sound and water pollution. No one wants to live near one, especially not doctors and teachers with young families who can choose to live anywhere.

Merced has a datacenter.

Re: No Data Centers in My Backyard

#100

Post by inemesitaffia »

StilesCrisis wrote: post #96
mapontosevenths wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> somehow manage to be as loud as jet engines Thats what anti-AI activists say. A decibel meter is about $20. For some reason the people in those videos never have one.

Here: https://www.reddit.com/r/oddlyterrifying/s/RAUfB2WAMD In this case it's a constant 60dB metallic whine. I would be livid if they built this near my home.

That's a small datacenter with a terrible exhaust fan.
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