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Apple says more ex-employees may have taken confidential data to OpenAI

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Re: Apple says more ex-employees may have taken confidential data to OpenAI

#231

Post by wat10000 »

adastra22 wrote: post #209
wat10000 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worse. "Cutthroat" implies being ruthless but legitimate. So-called "poaching" is completely moral and legal, whereas trying to get others not to "poach" "your" employees is immoral and illegal. There's a bright, clear line between targeted attempts to hire someone who has a job working for a competitor, and trying to get that person to take confidential information with them when they switch jobs. The latter is…

Eh, the kind of poaching OpenAI is accused of doing here is not normal recruiting. It is being claimed that they are giving specific instructions to exfiltrate Apple’s proprietary info & trade secrets.

I know, hence why I pointed out the very important difference between those two things.

I wouldn't describe this as "poaching." What OpenAI is accused of doing is industrial espionage and IP theft. It did this as part of hiring somebody away from another company, which is commonly (and IMO incorrectly) described as "poaching." But the problem isn't the "poaching," it's the theft. If they'd "poached" without the theft it would be fine. If they'd found a way to steal IP without hiring anyone it would still be bad.

Re: Apple says more ex-employees may have taken confidential data to OpenAI

#232

Post by rpaik »

paxys wrote: post #93
jdross wrote: post #69

Apple is cutthroat in business too. Tony Fadell, the inventor of the iPod and co-inventor of the iPhone, and later Nest founder, commented this in Stratechery about the lawsuit when filed: "This is Apple’s typical tactic to scare Apple employees — either former or current. I heard this lawsuit was driven by the Apple board. Steve threatened to file a lawsuit against Nest for poaching 80-100 Apple employees. He called…

Apple was the ringleader in the illegal anti-poaching agreements between SV companies a couple decades ago.

These companies (e.g., Intel, Google, etc.) also had to compensate their employees as a part of the settlement. Especially for people in engineering orgs, many of them received decent settlement checks.

Re: Apple says more ex-employees may have taken confidential data to OpenAI

#233

Post by adfgionatin »

WarmWash wrote: post #220
bilekas wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's just standard across the US. But the unions are a people problem not a company problem necessarily. People can still form unions even with massive investments to squash them.. Europe has proven that. But the story told to all US workers SEEMS to be, you have to suffer and grind to make money. I might be wrong but that's the impression I get when talking with US people about unions and workers rights.

Unions primarily benefit the weakest workers, and in places like SV, usually the top workers already are getting fat plates and others are pushing hard to get there. Think of it like a football club holding a vote to flatten player pay. The benchwarmers will be falling over themselves to unionize, and the top players will be looking where to move too. This is why union efforts fail, which many find perplexing. The mo…

What are you talking about? Unions don't mandate equal pay for all members.

Re: Apple says more ex-employees may have taken confidential data to OpenAI

#234

Post by adfgionatin »

adastra22 wrote: post #208
bilekas wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's just standard across the US. But the unions are a people problem not a company problem necessarily. People can still form unions even with massive investments to squash them.. Europe has proven that. But the story told to all US workers SEEMS to be, you have to suffer and grind to make money. I might be wrong but that's the impression I get when talking with US people about unions and workers rights.

If Silicon Valley had unions, employee stock options would end. And along with it, most of the incentive structure that drives innovation in the valley.

[dead]

Re: Apple says more ex-employees may have taken confidential data to OpenAI

#235

Post by adfgionatin »

jdross wrote: post #69

Apple is cutthroat in business too. Tony Fadell, the inventor of the iPod and co-inventor of the iPhone, and later Nest founder, commented this in Stratechery about the lawsuit when filed: "This is Apple’s typical tactic to scare Apple employees — either former or current. I heard this lawsuit was driven by the Apple board. Steve threatened to file a lawsuit against Nest for poaching 80-100 Apple employees. He called…

[dead]

Re: Apple says more ex-employees may have taken confidential data to OpenAI

#236

Post by watercolorblind »

dylan604 wrote: post #221
skeeter2020 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a huge fan of my old company, but they had great fitted & soft T-shirts. I wish I had more...

You like advertising for something you're not a huge fan of for free? The logic fails me

Comfy shirt to wear during yard work, working on the car, painting a wall, or laundry day around the house. It's reasonable to me.

Re: Apple says more ex-employees may have taken confidential data to OpenAI

#237

Post by hmokiguess »

Melatonic wrote: post #128

Saw this in the legal filing: "he took advantage of an authentication bug to gain access to Apple’s confidential third-party cloud repository to download at least thirty-seven highly sensitive and proprietary technical documents related to, among other things, Apple’s hardware technologies and research and development." Anybody know what they mean by "third party" ? Who provides Apple internal employees with a cloud…

what's the authentication bug?

Re: Apple says more ex-employees may have taken confidential data to OpenAI

#238

Post by keeda »

VCFundedGenYer wrote: post #30
datakan wrote: post #6

Really don't like all the drama around this. Should be dealt with in court, not tried in the press. Both sides should learn to remain silent and work the case through legal channels.

Why are you both-sidesing this? Apple is doing it right, simple high level statements. OpenAI is acting like a teenager posting screenshots of literal texts and being overall petulant. This is open and shut. The mature company will win this.

> Apple is doing it right, simple high level statements.

OpenAI is acting like a teenager posting screenshots of literal texts and being overall petulant.

Or you know, another perspective: Apple filed a very public lawsuit with some very explosive allegations, and OpenAI responded with receipts showing some of those allegations to be rooted in Apple's own incompetence. Sure, many more allegations are still unaddressed, but based on these screenshots a neutral observer could realistically question those too.

> This is open and shut. The mature company will win this.

This is not OpenAI's first rodeo so we actually have precedent: Elon filed a similarly explosive lawsuit, OpenAI responded similarly with receipts, and guess who won that case: https://openai.com/index/openai-elon-musk/

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