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Apple says more ex-employees may have taken confidential data to OpenAI

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Re: Apple says more ex-employees may have taken confidential data to OpenAI

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangentially related, but I was rewatching the old iPhone 3G keynote recently, and you wouldn't believe who made an appearance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X5xOI_qu9I&t=1649s

Wow red polo with a green polo underneath and double popped collars That’s a brave look

Did you mean puzzling look? Why is he wearing 2 shirts? In the 90's we would wear a long sleeve Tee under a band t-shirt, but we didn't wear multiple t-shirts...

Re: Apple says more ex-employees may have taken confidential data to OpenAI

#202
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why so many ex apple followed this particular path of Kool Aid? or maybe this says more about how the rank and file are just as susceptible to kool aid as any average Silicon Valley schmuck

The slurping of the kool-aid is not limited to SV. I've seen it at a couple of companies I've worked at in the past. Both were media/post type of studios where one you've probably heard of before and the other probably not. They both had employees that had their tongues stained the color of the kool-aid they drank. Seeing people wearing the SWAG shirts and hats of the company they work for in the office is just so cr…

I'm not a huge fan of my old company, but they had great fitted & soft T-shirts. I wish I had more...

Re: Apple says more ex-employees may have taken confidential data to OpenAI

#203
post #69

Apple is cutthroat in business too. Tony Fadell, the inventor of the iPod and co-inventor of the iPhone, and later Nest founder, commented this in Stratechery about the lawsuit when filed: "This is Apple’s typical tactic to scare Apple employees — either former or current. I heard this lawsuit was driven by the Apple board. Steve threatened to file a lawsuit against Nest for poaching 80-100 Apple employees. He called…

I think it's notable that Apple is vague about what was actually stolen and what OpenAI has actually received. I read into these PR blasts, lawsuits that Apple is sour about losing employees to higher salary opportunities, and is likely using lawsuits instead of higher salaries to retain them.

How is it notable? Apple’s complaint is that these are corporate secrets. If it wasn’t secret, there would be no case.

Re: Apple says more ex-employees may have taken confidential data to OpenAI

#204
post #123

This entire OpenAI hardware thing is a vanity project by Sam Altman wanting really bad to be Steve Jobs. Just look at this comical announcment photo and letter from last year https://openai.com/sam-and-jony/ . If this lawsuit results in the whole thing getting canned it might actually be good for OpenAI because it'll save them from pouring further billions down the drain over what will eventually be the Humane Pin 2.…

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IMO it's not a outrage/apologist thing anymore, just played out and irrelevant. There are so many current problems that we don't need to dig up things about Jobs - or defend him. Let's fix-forward.

Re: Apple says more ex-employees may have taken confidential data to OpenAI

#205
post #69

Apple is cutthroat in business too. Tony Fadell, the inventor of the iPod and co-inventor of the iPhone, and later Nest founder, commented this in Stratechery about the lawsuit when filed: "This is Apple’s typical tactic to scare Apple employees — either former or current. I heard this lawsuit was driven by the Apple board. Steve threatened to file a lawsuit against Nest for poaching 80-100 Apple employees. He called…

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It's not alleged, it's sadly confirmed. There's been comments on HN over the years from people who have worked under him.

Re: Apple says more ex-employees may have taken confidential data to OpenAI

#206
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple was the ringleader in the illegal anti-poaching agreements between SV companies a couple decades ago.

> anti-poaching The term make it sounds like a good thing, however I do not know if this was really a net positive. It might have helped the companies but isn't this anti-competitive at the employee level?

Yes and they got in huge trouble for it. It was a massive scandal. The only reason Apple wasn’t made an example of was because all the other big companies followed suit and did the same thing. It was Steve Jobs that drove this monopolistic behavior that could have turned out much worse for Apple.

Re: Apple says more ex-employees may have taken confidential data to OpenAI

#207
post #69

Apple is cutthroat in business too. Tony Fadell, the inventor of the iPod and co-inventor of the iPhone, and later Nest founder, commented this in Stratechery about the lawsuit when filed: "This is Apple’s typical tactic to scare Apple employees — either former or current. I heard this lawsuit was driven by the Apple board. Steve threatened to file a lawsuit against Nest for poaching 80-100 Apple employees. He called…

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That example does a pretty good job of showing how toxic both CEOs are/were

Re: Apple says more ex-employees may have taken confidential data to OpenAI

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And successfully at the time (illegally) squashed unionization efforts by software engineers

I think that's just standard across the US. But the unions are a people problem not a company problem necessarily. People can still form unions even with massive investments to squash them.. Europe has proven that. But the story told to all US workers SEEMS to be, you have to suffer and grind to make money. I might be wrong but that's the impression I get when talking with US people about unions and workers rights.

If Silicon Valley had unions, employee stock options would end. And along with it, most of the incentive structure that drives innovation in the valley.

Re: Apple says more ex-employees may have taken confidential data to OpenAI

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Tony and Steve were friends, that's not Apple being cutthroat. Cue: the chapter about poaching from friends in Ben Horowitz's The Hard Thing About Hard Things. If you cross that line and poach from your friends, expect to hear about it. Another example: https://www.reddit.com/r/EntrepreneurRideAlong/comments/1jgz...

It's worse. "Cutthroat" implies being ruthless but legitimate. So-called "poaching" is completely moral and legal, whereas trying to get others not to "poach" "your" employees is immoral and illegal. There's a bright, clear line between targeted attempts to hire someone who has a job working for a competitor, and trying to get that person to take confidential information with them when they switch jobs. The latter is…

Eh, the kind of poaching OpenAI is accused of doing here is not normal recruiting. It is being claimed that they are giving specific instructions to exfiltrate Apple’s proprietary info & trade secrets.

Re: Apple says more ex-employees may have taken confidential data to OpenAI

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly enough, Apple at one point had that attitude even under Cook. > “When we work on making our devices accessible by the blind, I don’t consider the bloody ROI,” Cook said. “If you want me to do things only for ROI reasons, you should get out of this stock.” That was back in 2014. But I do agree, it's time to normalize telling shareholders where they can shove it. If they don't like it, they can sell.

Ironically (and perversely) it's much easier to do this with exotic cap tables that keep voting rights and ownership effectively split. You needed a very valuable company to make this work and the most obvious example (Meta) is not exactly a beacon of corporate governance.

I don’t see how this is the case? The CEO can absolutely tell the board to shove it. The board can’t micromanage the CEO - they don’t have the levers to do that. So their options are few, and pretty much all nuclear along the lines of firing the CEO. Is the Apple board going to fire Tim Cook for making iPhones accessible? If they did, they’d find themselves fired by the shareholders.
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