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What's Behind the Sharp Drop in Labor Force Participation?

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Re: What's Behind the Sharp Drop in Labor Force Participation?

#51

Post by glimshe »

ryandrake wrote: post #24
glimshe wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bailed out at 50 while fully employed and making a ton of money in big tech - I was not laid off, I simply let my manager know, found a replacement and walked away. I have kids but I saved enough for healthcare, housing etc. I worked my ass off and lived very frugally to get here. Yes, I would be screwed if WW3 comes along, but who wouldn't? That comfy Big Tech job would vanish pretty quickly too. I have no desire…

I salute you! I just turned 50, but I never feel I can pull the trigger. The only thing really keeping me from doing it is the cost of health insurance. I've got 15 years before I can get on Medicare, and 15 years of privately purchased health insurance for the family is just not do-able.

Thank you! Health Insurance is certainly the big one. It took me a while to save for that. There are some ways explained by the FIRE community to reduce the amount you pay through the subsidies, but these could vanish at any time so you have to be prepared for that.

Re: What's Behind the Sharp Drop in Labor Force Participation?

#52

Post by antonymoose »

BeetleB wrote: post #50
antonymoose wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope! We live very conservatively. Turns out life is expensive.

I'm guessing you live in a high COL area? I don't think they're saying $150-300K will be easy, but it should be doable in raising 3 kids if you make sacrifices: 1. Seriously cut down on vacations. As an example, in the first 19 years of my life I slept in a hotel for perhaps 10 nights total (over 3 separate vacations). We did not feel at all deprived. Those who do are definitely "keeping up with the Joneses". 2. Don'…

I truly appreciate the thoughtful reply, really - we comply with most of if not all of it.

Unfortunately, the last 10-15 years has truly shifted what was once a low or middle tier CoL area into a higher tier. The Carolina Lowcountry went from hidden gem to a playground for the rich, or as a friend once put it “Antebellum Disneyland.”

I’ve used the example in other areas - my first team lead bought his house at 300k and sold it for over 1M last year. You just can’t compete anymore, I get similar stories from my Nashville and Texas colleagues.

The only winning move is to not play.

Re: What's Behind the Sharp Drop in Labor Force Participation?

#53

Post by mikert89 »

xeromal wrote: post #21
mikert89 wrote: post #9

Anecdotal evidence, but more than half of my friends that grew up: 1. middle upper class 2. college educated at a top 75 college 3. tall, decent looking are just not working regular corporate 9 to 5s and get by with consulting, small businesses, living off parents, living off nothing, scammy startups w2 9-5 is straight up not worth it, even in the 150-300k range

If 150k to 300k isn't enough for someone, they need financial therapy

its not that its not enough to live on, its just not worth it for what you give up in life

more and more people are just choosing not to play that game

Re: What's Behind the Sharp Drop in Labor Force Participation?

#54

Post by mikert89 »

antonymoose wrote: post #22
mikert89 wrote: post #9

Anecdotal evidence, but more than half of my friends that grew up: 1. middle upper class 2. college educated at a top 75 college 3. tall, decent looking are just not working regular corporate 9 to 5s and get by with consulting, small businesses, living off parents, living off nothing, scammy startups w2 9-5 is straight up not worth it, even in the 150-300k range

I previously worked at government job, a regional water company. Was on the fast track to become the AD and then CTO in the 5-10 year range as the entire upper echelon was on the verge of retirement. Except my salary would be capped at $150k as the CTO. The CTO himself owned a home a couple blocks off of the beach in one of the most desirable ZIP codes in my state. I, myself, best I could hope for on that salary is a…

Yeah, alot of high stress jobs pay enough to live on, but you cant really get ahead. And so whats the point? Probably the CTO had actual equity, by now they consider it a random management role, the actual person working that job can just be swapped as needed

Re: What's Behind the Sharp Drop in Labor Force Participation?

#55

Post by sleepybrett »

thegrim33 wrote: post #33
TuringNYC wrote: post #18

I talk to a lot of people in the Metro NY area. One problem here is -- if you need to commute into Manhattan (job center) -- it demands a certain salary, below which commuting in is a net-loss. Rent is $2000/mo. If you have a family and cannot have multiple roommates, you might be looking at $4000/mo. "if you cannot afford it, stop complainingb and live elsehwere" they say...sure...but a commuter train into Manhattan…

Your theory is that some people don't find it financially worthwhile to work in NYC, so therefore they decide to just give up and not work and not move anywhere else and just do absolutely nothing instead?

You have to work where the jobs are. Where the jobs are is expensive as fuck, AI and the economy are driving down labor costs (both actual number of salaries and the cost of those individual salaries)... but rent and other living costs are only going up.

Re: What's Behind the Sharp Drop in Labor Force Participation?

#56

Post by skeeter2020 »

ryandrake wrote: post #24
glimshe wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bailed out at 50 while fully employed and making a ton of money in big tech - I was not laid off, I simply let my manager know, found a replacement and walked away. I have kids but I saved enough for healthcare, housing etc. I worked my ass off and lived very frugally to get here. Yes, I would be screwed if WW3 comes along, but who wouldn't? That comfy Big Tech job would vanish pretty quickly too. I have no desire…

I salute you! I just turned 50, but I never feel I can pull the trigger. The only thing really keeping me from doing it is the cost of health insurance. I've got 15 years before I can get on Medicare, and 15 years of privately purchased health insurance for the family is just not do-able.

The tight coupling between employment and health insurance is a huge issue for the US, and has been for as long as I can remember. It's a pretty big ask of someone to "become an entrepreneur; either pay your own premiums or go without!"

Re: What's Behind the Sharp Drop in Labor Force Participation?

#57

Post by sleepybrett »

zaptheimpaler wrote: post #37
darth_avocado wrote: post #11

Im in the prime working age and if I didn’t have responsibilities (mortgage, health insurance, dependents etc.), I’d quit today and not participate for at least a couple of years. Corporate treatment of workers has deteriorated at an unprecedented rate since Covid and based on my anecdotal evidence we probably have a national level burnout and depression epidemic that no one is talking about or looking into. Most peo…

One of my colleagues said that working in software is like being a pro athlete nowadays and that struck me as true. The expectations just keep going higher and higher and higher across the board. But we sure aren't given the training, coaching, recovery, salary or recognition of pro athletes. COVID and AI are great examples of what's wrong today. We created an incredible global communication network that lets us all…

Yeah I always laugh when some corporate stooge is on cnn talking about how such and such new technology is going to allow us to produce so much more and maybe that means we don't need to work as much... it's been the same thing since the industrial revolution. Increases in individual productivity only flow to the employer. The employee sees 0 upside. They still work the same hours, their salary remains the same but the company is extracting some multiplier of the profit from your labor.

.. people wonder why the DSA is making so much noise and wonder why the 'mainstream' democrat party is not.

Re: What's Behind the Sharp Drop in Labor Force Participation?

#58

Post by xeromal »

mikert89 wrote: post #53
xeromal wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If 150k to 300k isn't enough for someone, they need financial therapy

its not that its not enough to live on, its just not worth it for what you give up in life more and more people are just choosing not to play that game

I think that's just having a family in general if you're not into it. Many people are chosing not to because they want a different life. It's not really a money question. Humans have been having kids in much worse times. We just have the option not to. Women have more rights and we have birth control.

Re: What's Behind the Sharp Drop in Labor Force Participation?

#59

Post by mikert89 »

xeromal wrote: post #58
mikert89 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its not that its not enough to live on, its just not worth it for what you give up in life more and more people are just choosing not to play that game

I think that's just having a family in general if you're not into it. Many people are chosing not to because they want a different life. It's not really a money question. Humans have been having kids in much worse times. We just have the option not to. Women have more rights and we have birth control.

no these people have families

Re: What's Behind the Sharp Drop in Labor Force Participation?

#60

Post by ryandrake »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #56
ryandrake wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I salute you! I just turned 50, but I never feel I can pull the trigger. The only thing really keeping me from doing it is the cost of health insurance. I've got 15 years before I can get on Medicare, and 15 years of privately purchased health insurance for the family is just not do-able.

The tight coupling between employment and health insurance is a huge issue for the US, and has been for as long as I can remember. It's a pretty big ask of someone to "become an entrepreneur; either pay your own premiums or go without!"

Yea, in an alternate universe where the USA had an actual healthcare safety net, I might have even gone the entrepreneur path rather than sweating it out for The Man for 25 years.
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