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U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

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Re: U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

#401

Post by valleyer »

jonnybgood wrote: post #380
LastTrain wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think the US has shown itself as to be extremely competent in the Iran war? If you were talking about Iraq, that was completely different leadership.

The US killed almost the entire Iranian regime leadership with minimal cost. What definition of competence are you going by?

The son of the elderly Iranian ruler, aligned politically with his father, took over. The war prompted Iran to operate one of the world's largest economic pressure levers, to great effect. The U.S.'s unilateralism, leadership rhetoric, and war crimes (like bombing a school) have lost it a significant amount of global goodwill.

None of that seems like it jibes with your description.

Re: U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

#402

Post by nikanj »

pendenthistory wrote: post #347
justin66 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For the most-dominant military power in the world to "whoopsy" run out of weapons because of a low-stakes engagement isn't readily believable. Wow, yeah, you'd need to have morons at the top of the chain of command and subordinates afraid to speak out in order for something like that to happen. Nothing like the US government today at all.

(Not American, need to preface with this) I think the US military has shown itself to be extremely competent in the last war. Reading about Desert Storm and later the invasion of Iraq it's just insane. It's still possible they miscalculated how rapidly warfare would change, but to call them morons... As far as I can see, there are only three proven militaries in the world, the US, Israel and Ukraine, and the US is or…

Extremely competent military expert: "Sir, we should hold back up strikes to preserve the stockpile of valuable high-precision missiles"

Someone higher up the chain of command: "Fire the missiles, or I'll replace you with someone who will"

Re: U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

#403

Post by mittensc »

jonnybgood wrote: post #380
LastTrain wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think the US has shown itself as to be extremely competent in the Iran war? If you were talking about Iraq, that was completely different leadership.

The US killed almost the entire Iranian regime leadership with minimal cost. What definition of competence are you going by?

tactical win - they achieved that quite easily.

strategic failure - iran shrugged it off and now are causing massive damage to world economy with no end in sight.

Re: U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

#404

Post by bijowo1676 »

SR2Z wrote: post #302
estearum wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the problem is that nobody actually gives a fuck about this war. The reason we don't have industrial capacity dedicated to this war is because everyone knows we're fighting it for no reason, there's no plan, it stops and starts every 4 days, so on. Simple consequences of having actual stupid people leading our government. If the US got into a war that anyone actually cared about, it would almost certainly snap in…

> If the US got into a war that anyone actually cared about, it would almost certainly snap into action at incredible speed. I'm gonna push back on "nobody cares." The United States is somewhat unique in that our doctrine calls for wars to be fought on distant shores, and that the main role of our military is to ensure that our ideology (liberal democracy) is protected across the world. That's why we entered WWII, it…

>our ideology (liberal democracy) is protected across the world

this is pure propaganda and is completely false statement, not grounded in reality. US has no problem protecting despotic autocracies like the Pinochet's junta in Chile or Saudi Arabian theocratic monarchy (a birthplace of islamic wahhabism).

The actual goal of military is to protect the status of USD as a global reserve currency and ensure all important nations are its vassals, fully subordinate to the US government.

The underlying reason is America is printing trillions of dollars out of thin air, not backed by anything, other than the threat from US military, so vassal states keep recycling their earned surplus currency into USD bonds and treasuries

Re: U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

#405

Post by davidgay »

irishcoffee wrote: post #381
yifanl wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For the most-dominant military power in the world to "whoopsy" run out of weapons because of a low-stakes engagement isn't readily believable. This is a concerning statement, as it implies it'd be impossible for the United States to lose an engagement regardless of any and all evidence.

How’s this. I can tell you with absolute certainty the US has a lot of munitions, they have not run out. Let’s stop pretending that the only reason Iran isn’t glass at the moment is because of the good will of the US. Unbelievable.

I guess you view what would be the worst crime against humanity ever to be committed (and yes, I really do mean to include all the previous ones in that statement) to be an acceptable answer to “oh, we have no more smart bombs, let’s just kill everyone in this country”?

Not committing a crime against humanity is not “good will”.

Re: U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

#406

Post by Jtsummers »

pendenthistory wrote: post #347
justin66 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For the most-dominant military power in the world to "whoopsy" run out of weapons because of a low-stakes engagement isn't readily believable. Wow, yeah, you'd need to have morons at the top of the chain of command and subordinates afraid to speak out in order for something like that to happen. Nothing like the US government today at all.

(Not American, need to preface with this) I think the US military has shown itself to be extremely competent in the last war. Reading about Desert Storm and later the invasion of Iraq it's just insane. It's still possible they miscalculated how rapidly warfare would change, but to call them morons... As far as I can see, there are only three proven militaries in the world, the US, Israel and Ukraine, and the US is or…

> Have we already forgotten what happened to Maduro? What other country in the history of the world could pull something like that off?

Venezuela was a raid, not a full on war. And it was so lopsided it was like putting Michael Jordan against a 10-year-old and based on that performance determining that Jordan is the GOAT. It demonstrated that against a remarkably unprepared and unready opponent the US can do well, which tells you nothing about the US's capabilities in actual warfare against a peer, near peer, or just damned determined opponents.

> Russia tried at Hostomel, didn't go so well.

That was not a comparable action to the Maduro raid. The raid was an in-and-out operation, with no need to control any territory for a significant period. Hostomel was a battle over control of territory.

Re: U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

#407

Post by bell-cot »

datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #268
svpk wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's worth pointing out that the US almost certainly could have taken control of the strait. But it would have required boats in the water and boots on the ground. But that puts many more lives at risk, would have been very unpopular (much moreso then the current war situation), etc. You can't win a war purely through air superiority and bombs. That's not a new lesson but it's one the administration failed to…

> You can't win a war purely through air superiority and bombs. That's not a new lesson but it's one the administration failed to learn through history and is apparently now failing to learn through practice. This is a lesson that conservative administrations have refused to learn for decades. I hope Curtis Lemay is experiencing a toasty afterlife for all of the suffering he has caused humanity due to a zealous convi…

The delusion is somewhat over a century old now. It originates from factions within the military community (vs. politicians) and there's nothing particularly conservative about it -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Mitchell#Post-war_advoca...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomber_Mafia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_hawk

Big picture, I'd categorize the problem as human nature and "sounds too good to be false".

Re: U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

#408

Post by californical »

overfeed wrote: post #382
joemi wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As far as I can see, there are only three proven militaries in the world, the US, Israel and Ukraine What in your view makes these ones proven and other ones not proven?

I was left scratching my head why Ukraine would be there, but not Iran, on the basis that it too has stood its ground in what the superpower aggressor planned to be short and decisive conflict.

Have they? Obviously there have been a ton of issues due to the US’s strategy in Iran. But almost nobody in the US has any affect from this war. Gas prices are up a bit. Mildly inconvenient for the majority of people, and that’s the biggest failure people are mad about.

Meanwhile Iran is in rough shape

Re: U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

#409

Post by roncesvalles »

dualvariable wrote: post #221
chmod775 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course there can be - likely with a gentleman's understanding that neither would use them, and each side careful to not back the other into a corner where they'd have nothing left to lose. It's just going to be your typical meatgrinder and attrition warfare.

Yeah, arguably the war in Ukraine is teaching everyone who is listening that nobody is willing to be the first to use nukes and destroy the planet, which means that nuclear powers can actually fight wars--which is incredibly dangerous, of course.

Nukes don't "destroy the planet", they're just really powerful bombs. Nuclear munitions have been detonated 2058 times already.

https://www.atomicarchive.com/almanac/test-sites/testing-chr...

Re: U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

#410

Post by jimmydoe »

Waterluvian wrote: post #370
jimmydoe wrote: post #365

used? as if it's paper towel wipe up some dirt? this is so depressing. USA people, do you all really love killing other human? or you have no control of your democratically elected government at all?

Didn't Americans kill something like 150 Iranian school girls and basically nothing came of it?

> nothing came of it?

they probably regretted as it "used all the missiles"

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