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U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

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Re: U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn’t be the first war the USA loose against a smaller enemy. See Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc etc.

The USA has never been defeated . It's never been taken over by force and forced to submit to a foreign power. War getting a little too expensive or politically unpopular for their tastes is not really a loss, and it implies nothing about their true capabilities. It's their relentless deindustrialization that will eventually do them in. The USA's industrial output back in WWII was staggering, its enemies had little h…

Sorry, but this is a comic book understanding of victory and defeat. Not your fault, many people think this way post-WWII as they have come to see this conflict as a template for what “real” war looks like.

Tactical defeat is when you are prevented from meeting your objectives for a particular operation, such as securing a target area or destroying/degrading a target enemy force. Strategic defeat is when the enemy prevents you from achieving your broader objectives (typically political, as war is politics by other means). The US has experienced both of these in the last century.

Most active militaries have experienced both types of defeat at one time or another. It’s practically impossible to avoid losing sometimes if you overuse war as a tool of diplomacy.

Re: U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

#162

All the expensive planes are falling out of the sky too. It seems like some weird plan to unwind the US ever since Obama left office. There’s no growth or hope. It’s all bad news, war, and rumors of war - and all reads like a bad WWE script. Just seems like a coordinated effort to destroy from within since about ~2016 or at least act out this play of America in Decline Whatever, would be way better if they celebrate…

Which expensive planes are falling out of the sky?

Re: U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

#163

Americans living in their bubble might be unable to see from a perspective, but from outside is quite apparent that American-Israeli conflict against Iran will long outlive both Trump and Netanjahu. Hopefully that was the last dumb thing and decision they made.

> American-Israeli conflict against Iran

Is it even a correct framing for the conflict ? Iran seems to have big issues with UAE and Saudi Arabia and repeatedly fired at them and got fired by them.

Re: U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitions of "lose" have been updated by firesteelrain to exclude retreating after failing to achieve anything.

The nation-building project ultimately failed. That is not the same as achieving nothing, nor is a political withdrawal the same thing as being militarily defeated.

You can also do Victory parades regardless of losing.

Re: U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

#165

3 generations of wealth poured into the most expensive military in recorded history - the reason that we don't have health care, clean energy, decent social safety nets and so many other things... and they can't even control a small stretch of water. What a waste.

What are we even talking about here? Controlling the strait? This actually means controlling so much land around the strait that Iran can't launch missiles or drones at ships. Essentially conquering all of Iran by ground invasion. The USA could do this, sure, but we don't want to because its too stupid even for us.

Even if we threw everything at it and turned it into a war economy making everything to focus on this task, we'd lose most of our influence in the rest of the world at that time and then we'd end up in a Russia situation once we control the land where we are in a non stop war with people dying the entire time we are there. There's no situation where it makes sense for us to do this or to have attacked Iran in the first place.

Yeah it's stupid, though with this administration stupid seems to be the flavor they prefer.

Re: U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

#166
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you set out to achieve an objective, but the enemy prevents you from achieving that objective, you lost.

I wouldn't say they lost . They failed their strategic objectives, but they're still out there, intact and combat capable. Losing is what happened to Germany after both World Wars.

How do you learn to cope so well? Did you attend the Dugin College of psychotic delusion or something?

Re: U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

#167
post #3

That's the one glaring weakness of relying too heavily on missiles. They are expensive and difficult to manufacture. And they have a limited shelf life, making stockpiles also expensive In previous conflicts the US military could get a lot done with bombs, but that's risky if you can't get air superiority and take out all enemy anti-air systems. Which is more difficult against an enemy who can shoot at your air bases…

Doctrine never intended for these bombs to be used almost exclusively as means to wage wars. These are meant for strikes that need to be precise and carried in a short notice. If you have 10 targets and use atacms in all 10, there's something wrong in the decision making process or the strategy.

We all know there's something very wrong with this administration and their decision making.

Re: U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

#168

All the expensive planes are falling out of the sky too. It seems like some weird plan to unwind the US ever since Obama left office. There’s no growth or hope. It’s all bad news, war, and rumors of war - and all reads like a bad WWE script. Just seems like a coordinated effort to destroy from within since about ~2016 or at least act out this play of America in Decline Whatever, would be way better if they celebrate…

Which expensive planes are falling out of the sky?

https://www.legion.org/information-center/news/security/2026...

Re: U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

#169
post #49

3 generations of wealth poured into the most expensive military in recorded history - the reason that we don't have health care, clean energy, decent social safety nets and so many other things... and they can't even control a small stretch of water. What a waste.

The health care issue in the USA isn't due to lack of funding, the US spends more on health care per person than any other country, double that of many European countries with single payer systems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea... The costs of medicare, medicaid and CHIP to tax payers are about what most Europeans pay in tax for universal health care, but then they also need to pay for…

> the US military absolutely could control Hormuz. I'm confident it's quite capable of it. It's that the US public wouldn't support the immense cost in lives and treasure it would take to do it, and maintain that control

I never understood these kinds of arguments and they always come from those defending US military might.

Either they can do it or they cannot, if "the US public wouldn't support the immense cost in lives and treasure it would take to do it" is true, which it appears to be, then the US Military cannot control Hormuz.

Re: U.S. used 'virtually all' of its long-range precision missiles during Iran war

#170
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paper tiger.

Venezuela thought the same thing. Keeping a full-scale deployment at arm's length, and 'only' targeting military targets with exhaustive use of precision missiles is poor strategy, but if a military victory were the US's only ambition the Iranian regime has no capability that could prevent its country from being turned into a smoldering parking lot. Doctrine isn't the same as inability.

Venezuela was likely a palace coup disguised as a purely foreign intervention by both parties involved. There is a reason why instead of holding an election or having the opposition take over, they just handed the country to Maduro's very own vice president.
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