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Why did we wait so long for the bicycle? (2019)

blog.rootsofprogress.org

41–50 of 72 posts

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle? (2019)

#41

Incredible to think that barely ten years after bicycles were somewhat perfected as useful, Wright brothers started testing their early plane designs.

I hate to burst your bubble, but... The Wright Brothers started in a bicycle workshop, as did practically every auto maker, in Europe, in the early days. The bicycle workshop was the cradle for many things. The Wright Brothers were not good for progress. Their game was patents. They were rent seekers, as in 'patent trolls', not innovators. This is why so much early aviation switched to Europe. With the bicycle the Wr…

> The Wright Brothers were not good for progress. Their game was patents. They were rent seekers, as in 'patent trolls', not innovators. This is why so much early aviation switched to Europe.

This just isn't true. The Wright Brothers solved fundamental problems in aviation that no one else did.

The three axis control mechanism is still what every plane uses today. They literally had to invent that notion. Adverse yaw is something that every single pilot learns about and handles.

They discovered the notion of stalling (literally they were the first to identify the notion and use the term) and the relationship between angle of attack and stalling. This is the sort of thing that will 100% kill you immediately when you fly, but if you know what to do it's part of routine training.

And that's just the start of it. You should read "What the Wright Brothers Did and Did Not Understand About Flight Mechanics—In Modern Terms" by Fred E.C. Culick

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/What-the-Wright-Brothe...

This has nothing to do with being American or not.

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle? (2019)

#42
post #4

I think the author is missing another major factor: the early bicycle doesn't solve any problem satisfactorily. A velocipede at best saves you a bit of energy going flat or downhill, with relatively little increase in speed, with a relatively high capital expense. Compared with walking and horses, it doesn't help much. You have to get all the way to the safety bicycle (with pneumatic tires) before you have something…

There is even a bigger factor, the environment, Bicycles are only as good as the roads you're riding them on. Off-road bicycle is a far more sophisticated and modern invention that builds on massive supply chain and production capabilities to be produced competitively compared to price of horse of yester-years.

for rough roads, fat-tires are the way to go

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle? (2019)

#43
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't so much tarmac, it was just anything passable between towns. When the trains came along (to replace the canals), people just took the magic teleportal that was the train, same for goods traffic. This led to there being nobody using the 'road', with the road becoming reclaimed by nature. The way between towns was the train, with road not being an option, except to get you to the train station.

I don't think there was ever a situation of roads getting overgrown. The canals and trains were part an parcel of the industrial revolution. That if anything led to more road traffic. Yes it may not be long distance, but it's still to the nearest town/train station. It's like suggesting that a local road next to a motorway suddenly doesn't get used. It won't get used by long distance traffic. But it attracts traffic…

Carlton Reid, the guy who started the trade website BikeBiz, is my source for this, and his is a name to look out for, his writing is consistently good and his advocacy based on a knowledge of history. I am just paraphrasing what I have learned from his telling of the early days of the CTC (Cycle Touring Club).

There were many cycle touring clubs, and this was how men met women without their mothers being around!

The trains connected communities as never before and what we call the 'A roads' that connect towns had nobody using them, simple as that. Why would you go on an arduous journey that would take all day when the train would get you there in twenty minutes?

At the time there were no local authorities to look after the roads, it was each parish to its own, with the locals doing the work. Toll roads were the solution to the problem of maintenance, and toll roads were the 'A roads'. When they no longer had customers, due to the trains, they were done.

As for the bicycle and the reopening of roads, this had a lot to do with men chasing women, before the bicycle you were somewhat restricted to the gene pool in your village, with the bicycle there were neighbouring villages. It wasn't all about getting to the factory for work, there was this huge leisure/dating aspect to early cycling culture.

Trains were 10x faster than horses and men - at walking speed - on rough roads. The toll roads just withered and died. Confronted with a mountain, the train would just blast through, whereas the road would be a treacherous mountain pass, no tunnel, cutting or massive bridge provided. Trains were rocket ships.

Before that, canals had their own quirks of geography, with much of it to do with feeding or resting horses. The signs are for the next horse stop, not the nearby town.

With many a British town the town centre can be dated by when the canal arrived and when the railway arrived, since the buildings in the town centre start in local stone, then you get slate from the canal arriving and then brick, because the train made it to town.

It is incredible that so much of the final mile was by horse and cart. Only with 21st century goggles on does your idea of induced vehicular traffic make sense, trains were just too good.

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle? (2019)

#44
post #11

High-quality (higher carbon) steel required for frame, chain and gears was not abundant enough and cheap enough until late XIX century.

You know if you tap on the text at the top, it takes you to an article that expands upon the question. In this case you'll find that article discusses the strengths and weaknesses of the materials bottleneck!

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle? (2019)

#45
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there was ever a situation of roads getting overgrown. The canals and trains were part an parcel of the industrial revolution. That if anything led to more road traffic. Yes it may not be long distance, but it's still to the nearest town/train station. It's like suggesting that a local road next to a motorway suddenly doesn't get used. It won't get used by long distance traffic. But it attracts traffic…

Carlton Reid, the guy who started the trade website BikeBiz, is my source for this, and his is a name to look out for, his writing is consistently good and his advocacy based on a knowledge of history. I am just paraphrasing what I have learned from his telling of the early days of the CTC (Cycle Touring Club). There were many cycle touring clubs, and this was how men met women without their mothers being around! The…

> Carlton Reid, the guy who started the trade website BikeBiz, is my source for this, and his is a name to look out for, his writing is consistently good and his advocacy based on a knowledge of history. I am just paraphrasing what I have learned from his telling of the early days of the CTC (Cycle Touring Club).

I'll just note if there's one thing I've learned from studying a lot of history writing, it's that being a good writer has little correlation with establishing a ground truth. Indeed, there may be a negative correlation. You're almost certainly more likely to perceive somebody who can craft a compelling narrative as a "good writer". Compelling narratives are entertaining and satisfying. Reality can be a lot more boring. I find that a very significant portion of history writing takes a few tiny scraps of real information from primary sources (which could itself be embellished!) and extrapolates to what society must have been like, and does so in a way that makes it sound interesting.

This is not a commentary on Carlton Reid specifically. I have not read his writing. But I think this is a general principle to be aware and careful of. The reality is that in most cases we don't have a comprehensive historical record, especially for anything predating the 20th century, and history writing involves a lot of plausibly but not necessarily truthfully filling in the gaps. People telling you "this is what society was like" sates your curiosity a lot better than "we don't really know tbh".

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle? (2019)

#46

Incredible to think that barely ten years after bicycles were somewhat perfected as useful, Wright brothers started testing their early plane designs.

I hate to burst your bubble, but... The Wright Brothers started in a bicycle workshop, as did practically every auto maker, in Europe, in the early days. The bicycle workshop was the cradle for many things. The Wright Brothers were not good for progress. Their game was patents. They were rent seekers, as in 'patent trolls', not innovators. This is why so much early aviation switched to Europe. With the bicycle the Wr…

When the Wright Brothers first came to Europe in 1908, their prototype could fly for several kilometers of controlled flight. The best European prototypes at that time were absolutely inferior, which is why the Wright Brothers immediately managed to sign contracts with European companies. They introduced the three-axis control system which was a major innovation, basically the opposite of a patent troll.

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle? (2019)

#47

Incredible to think that barely ten years after bicycles were somewhat perfected as useful, Wright brothers started testing their early plane designs.

I hate to burst your bubble, but... The Wright Brothers started in a bicycle workshop, as did practically every auto maker, in Europe, in the early days. The bicycle workshop was the cradle for many things. The Wright Brothers were not good for progress. Their game was patents. They were rent seekers, as in 'patent trolls', not innovators. This is why so much early aviation switched to Europe. With the bicycle the Wr…

> With the bicycle the Wright Brothers patented the left-hand thread.

I tried to verify that a couple of years ago, at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42709428 . It does not seem to be true.

https://www.wright-brothers.org/Information_Desk/Just_the_Fa... says "Wilbur and Orville were in the vanguard of those manufacturers that offered right-hand threads on one crank arm and left-hand threads on the other" but not the inventors.

I was also able to find earlier uses of left-handed threads for bicycles, like in this 1881 book, at https://archive.org/details/indispensablebic00stur/page/14/m...

"The Centaur Crank is first screwed up to a shoulder on the axle with right and left-handed threads, so that the pressure of the foot tends to make it all the more secure ; whilst, to prevent its loosening by “ back-pedalling,” a slightly tapered conical pin is driven through both crank and axle, and secured with a nut."

Do you know the patent number? I searched the USPTO but found no bicycle related patent by either of the Wright brothers.

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle? (2019)

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is even a bigger factor, the environment, Bicycles are only as good as the roads you're riding them on. Off-road bicycle is a far more sophisticated and modern invention that builds on massive supply chain and production capabilities to be produced competitively compared to price of horse of yester-years.

for rough roads, fat-tires are the way to go

How rough before even that's not enough, and were typical roads at the time of this quality?

Also, consider when vulcanised rubber and inflatable tires were invented.

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle? (2019)

#49
post #4

I think the author is missing another major factor: the early bicycle doesn't solve any problem satisfactorily. A velocipede at best saves you a bit of energy going flat or downhill, with relatively little increase in speed, with a relatively high capital expense. Compared with walking and horses, it doesn't help much. You have to get all the way to the safety bicycle (with pneumatic tires) before you have something…

> we are lucky that European aristocrats were bored and enjoyed scary proto-bicycles

There is a lesson there that is relevant today because our economy has forgotten it: to have innovation you need people to have spare time.

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle? (2019)

#50
post #27
post #4

I think the author is missing another major factor: the early bicycle doesn't solve any problem satisfactorily. A velocipede at best saves you a bit of energy going flat or downhill, with relatively little increase in speed, with a relatively high capital expense. Compared with walking and horses, it doesn't help much. You have to get all the way to the safety bicycle (with pneumatic tires) before you have something…

I think you are partly right, but I also think the mechanical advantage of the bicycle, even the velocipede, was significantly underestimated. You say it saves "a bit of energy going flat or downhill" but some quick calculations suggest it is twice as energy efficient just balancing along, and 3 to 4 times more efficient pedalling. These advantages aren't always realised, especially over shorter distances, but I woul…

That sentence was about the pedal-less velocipede. It basically holds up your butt while you walk, and can coast a bit.
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