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SwiftUI After 7 Years

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Re: SwiftUI After 7 Years

#291

Post by pjmlp »

dwaite wrote: post #255
dosisking wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you think that they would be able to build MacOS X and Cocoa today if they didn't already exist?

Would they want to? If you were to build a system with no requirement for backward compatibility with cocoa or macOS, or even knowledge from such a thing existing, we have still moved forward three decades from not just NeXT, but the computing industry that NeXT was built to serve. I'd assume their requirements would be drastically different, and the system they created would be drastically different as a result. The…

I recommend reading on Steve Jobs biographies of what was done at NeXT, regarding whatever industry your mean.

Re: SwiftUI After 7 Years

#293

Post by [deleted] »

happytoexplain wrote: post #274
viktorcode wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure if the author is aware that GeometryReader hasn't been necessary since iOS 18 added onGeometryChange modifiers. I think the author does not understand how and why to use GeometryReader at all. He literally said "you find yourself wrapping everything in a GeometryReader" which is a different thing from simply measuring. For measuring you could always put GeometryReader into `.background()` and use that…

Compiler timeouts are only a Swift issue because it is so flexible. They don't happen outside of SwiftUI except in toy examples that look simple but aren't realistic. SwiftUI is the only realistic example where timeouts happen (which is unacceptable). Regarding GeometryReader: Just read your comment out loud .

[deleted]

Re: SwiftUI After 7 Years

#294

Post by dosisking »

simlevesque wrote: post #268
MichaelZuo wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you dont believe me… nobody is stopping you from testing various things on the same model? And if you dont have it already… then what could I possibly say that would motivate you to buy a used one to do the testing to confirm? Edit: And even on my ipad pro m2 doing literally nothing other than swiping to the app library often causes a visible stutter and lag for hundreds of miliseconds… so if you really think it’s…

Why should I need to do any testing ? I'm just going to keep on not believing you until you back up your claims. And your iPad example doesn't make sense at all, you compared 2 Macbooks and now you're talking about another OS altogether. > idk what to say. You could just tell us one example of something that's faster on your 2019 Macbook Pro 15 versus a M5 Macbook pro and how to reproduce it.

> Why should I need to do any testing ? I'm just going to keep on not believing you until you back up your claims.

And why should he care what you think, because you have already made up your mind and don't care at all about facts or the truth.

Re: SwiftUI After 7 Years

#295

Post by dosisking »

saagarjha wrote: post #189
ardit33 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you. Swift should have been a modernized Objective-C. It should have kept the best parts of it, which made it a joy to use, and leave the archaic and the weird things behind. it would have been a great language, meanwhile they decided to throw everything out and created a language that it is overcomplex, and it is failing to gain any traction outside iOS / Apple's ecosystem. Basically, if you weren't req…

> it would have been a great language, meanwhile they decided to throw everything out and created a language that it is overcomplex, and it is failing to gain any traction outside iOS / Apple's ecosystem. Basically, if you weren't required to use it, nobody would, which makes it a failure. Which means Objective-C was a failure, right?

Since macOS and iOS would not exist without Objective-C, the answer is No, it was not a failure.

Re: SwiftUI After 7 Years

#296

Post by saagarjha »

dosisking wrote: post #295
saagarjha wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it would have been a great language, meanwhile they decided to throw everything out and created a language that it is overcomplex, and it is failing to gain any traction outside iOS / Apple's ecosystem. Basically, if you weren't required to use it, nobody would, which makes it a failure. Which means Objective-C was a failure, right?

Since macOS and iOS would not exist without Objective-C, the answer is No, it was not a failure.

This does not answer my question.

Re: SwiftUI After 7 Years

#297

Post by dosisking »

dwaite wrote: post #252
ardit33 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you. Swift should have been a modernized Objective-C. It should have kept the best parts of it, which made it a joy to use, and leave the archaic and the weird things behind. it would have been a great language, meanwhile they decided to throw everything out and created a language that it is overcomplex, and it is failing to gain any traction outside iOS / Apple's ecosystem. Basically, if you weren't req…

> and leave the archaic and the weird things behind. The number one archiac/weird thing was message passing instead of methods. Number two was square brackets for message passing. What would be left of Objective-C once these were left behind? > and it is failing to gain any traction outside iOS / Apple's ecosystem. Objective-C was on a path to gain serious traction outside of the Apple ecosystem?

Forcing Swift instead of Objective C caused the good programmers to leave, and attracted the mediocre developers

Re: SwiftUI After 7 Years

#298

Post by dosisking »

pjmlp wrote: post #232
ardit33 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you. Swift should have been a modernized Objective-C. It should have kept the best parts of it, which made it a joy to use, and leave the archaic and the weird things behind. it would have been a great language, meanwhile they decided to throw everything out and created a language that it is overcomplex, and it is failing to gain any traction outside iOS / Apple's ecosystem. Basically, if you weren't req…

So just like Objective-C? Rescued by NeXT's acquisition, having failed to gain market adoption otherwise.

The Objective C at StepStone was completely different than the one at NeXT. It was very primitive. Steve Naroff did pretty much all of the heavy lifting, and turned Objective C into a language that could be used to create NeXTStep, and then OS X, and eventually iPhone.

Re: SwiftUI After 7 Years

#299

Post by dosisking »

steve1977 wrote: post #264
dosisking wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Could Apple build MacOS X and Cocoa today if they didn't already exist? Apple got rid of all the NeXT people long ago, with Tim Cook stabbing Scott Forstall in the back, so the answer is No.

Craig Federighi was working on EOF at NeXT I think.

He left after the Apple acquisition in 1999, then came back around 2009. During the time he was gone was when Apple did their best work (Snow Leopard and iPhone).

Re: SwiftUI After 7 Years

#300

Post by dosisking »

saagarjha wrote: post #212
dosisking wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you think that they would be able to build MacOS X and Cocoa today if they didn't already exist?

In what sense?

In a technical sense. Do the remaining NeXT employees still at Apple have the technical skills to create Mac OS X and Cocoa?
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