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ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children

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Re: ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children

#81

Post by bookofjoe »

mft_ wrote: post #8
voidUpdate wrote: post #5

IF there was a secure and trustable way that a trusted government could retain DNA information, then I feel like people having a DNA test at birth or on becoming a citizen could be useful, both medically ("your sample indicates you may have a higher risk of dementia") and from a policing standpoint ("we found DNA on this woman's clothes and immediately matched it to this man who hasn't committed a crime before" or "w…

Indeed. It’s essentially the age-old conundrum: I don’t need to worry about my privacy because I’m not breaking the rules… until someone changes the rules.

In December 2009, then-Google CEO Eric Schmidt famously stated during a CNBC interview, "If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place."

Re: ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children

#82

Post by dlahoda »

voidUpdate wrote: post #5

IF there was a secure and trustable way that a trusted government could retain DNA information, then I feel like people having a DNA test at birth or on becoming a citizen could be useful, both medically ("your sample indicates you may have a higher risk of dementia") and from a policing standpoint ("we found DNA on this woman's clothes and immediately matched it to this man who hasn't committed a crime before" or "w…

ZK, FHE, MPC is written in Rust/Swift/C(pp) to support proper DNA data management. I assume that there is already done research related to DNA. Any modern phone has enough to crank needed bits. These schemes do not need trust to company nor government.

Remaining is to upgrade old phones of every body.

Re: ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children

#84

Post by dpb001 »

alistairSH wrote: post #40
assimpleaspossi wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember that one still needs proof. My DNA on a victim's clothes does not mean I committed the crime.

Are you willing to trust 12 random schmoes to make that call correctly? Especially in the face of an overzealous prosecutor?

Exactly. I’ve served on two juries and the experiences left me shaking my head. In one case the judge’s instructions were dismissed by a majority of the jury members with a “yeah, but…”.

Re: ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children

#85

Post by bluegatty »

voidUpdate wrote: post #5

IF there was a secure and trustable way that a trusted government could retain DNA information, then I feel like people having a DNA test at birth or on becoming a citizen could be useful, both medically ("your sample indicates you may have a higher risk of dementia") and from a policing standpoint ("we found DNA on this woman's clothes and immediately matched it to this man who hasn't committed a crime before" or "w…

Totally agree; we can't leverage good stuff because we are mess.

There are some sorts of protocols and conventions that might help with this.

For example, not-for profit medical systems can hold certain records , then problems are regionally isolated and have extra layers of protection.

Biosignatures, similarly, we may want to only enabling 'matching, and with a warrant' - so that gov may not procure individuals biometrics, but only require a 3rd party lab to do matching, with oversight, process etc.

That would radically limit concentration of of actual power, likelhihood of problems.

If biometric matching companies were liable for failure to implement protocol (aka delete after test) etc - then that's powerful.

Regulations are never perfect, but they work.

Companies can skirt the law - but 99% of the time it's just normal compliance.

The trick is to make regs that don't encourage breaking compliance, and when it happens, the blast radius is limited.

Re: ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children

#86

Post by haritha-j »

microtonal wrote: post #48
voidUpdate wrote: post #5

IF there was a secure and trustable way that a trusted government could retain DNA information, then I feel like people having a DNA test at birth or on becoming a citizen could be useful, both medically ("your sample indicates you may have a higher risk of dementia") and from a policing standpoint ("we found DNA on this woman's clothes and immediately matched it to this man who hasn't committed a crime before" or "w…

I don't think it could ever actually work in practice :/ Exactly. I can think of so many bad outcomes. Just the medical point: both medically ("your sample indicates you may have a higher risk of dementia") You know how this will end in the modern tech dystopia. In countries where health care insurance is not mandatory or there is a large gap between collectivized and private insurance, DNA would be used to reject or…

You could potentially make DNA a 'protected class' of data, implying insuarance companies cannot look at it in their decision making, same as something like race.

Re: ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children

#87

Post by andrewclunn »

Framing things as protecting children from predators, corporations, governments, etc... seems to always be the justification given for and against any measure directed at them. Child trafficking is real. Governments are already moving toward age verification online. Most people seem to legitimately only care about privacy or children's protection when it serves as a bludgeoning tool for "their team." Consider me sufficiently jaded on this issue.

Re: ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children

#88

Post by rtkwe »

voidUpdate wrote: post #5

IF there was a secure and trustable way that a trusted government could retain DNA information, then I feel like people having a DNA test at birth or on becoming a citizen could be useful, both medically ("your sample indicates you may have a higher risk of dementia") and from a policing standpoint ("we found DNA on this woman's clothes and immediately matched it to this man who hasn't committed a crime before" or "w…

That's the issue with granting the government more surveillance powers, you can never trust it will only be used 'properly' and more and more in the US the Supreme Court is tearing down the minor safeguards of independent agencies so more and more it's up to the whims of the current President.

Re: ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children

#89

Post by aaomidi »

haritha-j wrote: post #86
microtonal wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it could ever actually work in practice :/ Exactly. I can think of so many bad outcomes. Just the medical point: both medically ("your sample indicates you may have a higher risk of dementia") You know how this will end in the modern tech dystopia. In countries where health care insurance is not mandatory or there is a large gap between collectivized and private insurance, DNA would be used to reject or…

You could potentially make DNA a 'protected class' of data, implying insuarance companies cannot look at it in their decision making, same as something like race.

We do basically have this, kinda, with not being able to discriminate based on pre-existing conditions.

The law however is only as good as it is being enforced. And if recent events is anything to go by, not having this data is generally the strongest protection.

Re: ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children

#90

Post by spwa4 »

microtonal wrote: post #51
spwa4 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few things we can know for sure. The Dutch immigration enforcement authority, IND, has a blanket exception for to the GPDR collecting any kind of information on anybody "for the purposes of immigration enforcement". 10 years ago we found out, from a budget proposal that was in dispute, that the police had sent every mental health database in the Netherlands to Palantir. Regular health databases too, but if you're D…

As far as I know the IND only gives the option for a DNA test (voluntary choice), if as a refugee you want to let your family come over to prove that someone is actually your family. This is not great, but faked familial ties have been used in the past to get people into the country. Also, the DNA test is not done by the IND, but by the NFI (Dutch Forensic Institute), who destroy the material after six months. sidewn…

No they just preemptively legally approved IND for to collecting ANY information on both immigrants AND citizens.

The Dutch government must have done that because it comes with a really cool badge ... that's the only explanation possible here.

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