This behavior will continue until an actual consequence is introduced.
ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children
41–50 of 137 posts
Re: ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children
#42They don't mention this, but one major reason for this is to validate claims of family units and prevent trafficking. This is, I suspect, a good thing. The article never states any downsides, other then nebulous claims. Yes, DNA is like finger printing someone, which is routinely done for arrests, but has the benefit of assisting in claims of family relations, which is at the heart of many ICE concerns.
They don't mention this, but one major reason for apartheid's Bantustan policy was to recognize distinct homelands and preserve cultural communities. This is, I suspect, a good thing. The article never states any downsides, other than nebulous claims. Yes, assigning people to ethnic homelands is like any other government record-keeping, which is routinely done, but has the benefit of assisting in claims of separate national identities, which was at the heart of many apartheid concerns.
Re: ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are several European countries that do this from what I understand
Slightly biased because I'm a european, but I think a european country is more likely to be trust-able with a country-wide DNA database. Only slightly more though, I still wouldn't trust them to actually do it right
> Slightly biased because I'm a european, but I think a european country is more likely to be trust-able with a country-wide DNA database.
There were multiple governments operating pervasive surveillance states and using them to punish dissidents on the western part of European continent well within a human lifetime from today. What makes you think that won't happen again, this time in a completely iron-clad way?
Re: ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children
#44IF there was a secure and trustable way that a trusted government could retain DNA information, then I feel like people having a DNA test at birth or on becoming a citizen could be useful, both medically ("your sample indicates you may have a higher risk of dementia") and from a policing standpoint ("we found DNA on this woman's clothes and immediately matched it to this man who hasn't committed a crime before" or "w…
When I was a kid, I recall police coming to our classrooms to fingerprint us. The whole school got fingerprinted. The idea was to help police if kids went missing.
Whether or not you believe that justification ("Stranger Danger" was a scare at the time), I can promise you those fingerprints were used to put people in jail later.
Re: ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Perfect enforcement of crimes is a bad thing. If criminal law was perfectly enforced we'd still be in Prohibition and PGP would also be illegal.
It's generally quite hard to get a DNA sample from someone's PGP signature
"This software is for verified downloaders only. Please scan your ID card to start downloading.".
Re: ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
> IF there was a secure and trustable way that a trusted government could retain DNA information How long does that government need to stay trusted and secure? For the lifetime of the born person only, or should that requirement also extend to the offspring of said person? Can you point to any current government that has been consistently trusted and secure for the past 100 years? How much are you willing to risk on…
Right, and that's why it's preposterous to even imagine this happening. In no time you'd have an administration that was providing that DNA evidence to defense contractors for Top Secret clearance, background checks, etc. "We're sorry your job application was rejected because we found you were 4% less maximally conscientious than the median applicant" I've had job applications (albeit in secured projects) rejected fo…
Health insurance actuaries would be a concern also.
Re: ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children
#47IF there was a secure and trustable way that a trusted government could retain DNA information, then I feel like people having a DNA test at birth or on becoming a citizen could be useful, both medically ("your sample indicates you may have a higher risk of dementia") and from a policing standpoint ("we found DNA on this woman's clothes and immediately matched it to this man who hasn't committed a crime before" or "w…
There are several European countries that do this from what I understand
Iceland have a _geneological_ database, which is something of a sensible precaution against consanguinity in a small gene pool that was isolated before air travel. I don't think anywhere has population-wide genetic databases and I struggle to see how it would be compatible with GDPR?
(France actually ban paternity testing without a court order!)
Re: ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children
#48IF there was a secure and trustable way that a trusted government could retain DNA information, then I feel like people having a DNA test at birth or on becoming a citizen could be useful, both medically ("your sample indicates you may have a higher risk of dementia") and from a policing standpoint ("we found DNA on this woman's clothes and immediately matched it to this man who hasn't committed a crime before" or "w…
I don't think it could ever actually work in practice :/
Exactly. I can think of so many bad outcomes. Just the medical point:
both medically ("your sample indicates you may have a higher risk of dementia")
You know how this will end in the modern tech dystopia. In countries where health care insurance is not mandatory or there is a large gap between collectivized and private insurance, DNA would be used to reject or raise the prices for people with 'unlucky DNA'.
A government that could be trusted now is not necessarily trustable in the future. I am pretty sure the orange guy clan would love to lone their pockets by selling such information.
Also, apart from these issues, a lot of people simply do not want to know these things. Suppose that the outcome is "you have a 30% risk of dementia by 60". For most people such kind of information is hard to act on, while it increases worry significantly. I do think it can help for some treatable illnesses, enabling early monitoring.
Re: ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children
#49[flagged]
Re: ICE Collected Nearly 1M People's DNA Last Year–Including Young Children
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean, are YOU going to try to stop them?
Like Susan Collins, I shall furrow my brow to indicate my unease with the situation. Kidding, sort of, if brownshirts and other government-sanctioned thugs show up in November, I'm really not sure what I'll do. They're already making noise about doing extra "Watching" of elections in my area (Fairfax County) and as far as I can tell, the only criteria for that is "they vote blue, so it must be fraud!"
It's a dumb question anyways. What any individual will do to resist is determined by the existence of a social movement, or lack thereof. You don't have to be willing to sacrifice your life or freedom in vain to contribute to that movement. It's a cynical framing by people who have been propagandized into hating nearly-powerless activists more than than the state, or even just support the state outright.