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'Crush this lady': how eBay harassment campaign led to $56M payout

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131–140 of 146 posts

Re: 'Crush this lady': how eBay harassment campaign led to $56M payout

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In one of my college courses, 100% of my fellow students cheated, including me. This is when I learned that virtually every person is deep down a liar and a cheat if they think they won't face consequences and it's in their benefit, and any public facade of virtue that people put up, common in this industry, is a manipulation strategy that is just more cheating, although of a different kind.

I don't think that's the lesson. What I take from that is that people adapt to norms and incentives they have. Despite all the talk about "academic integrity" and whatnot, very rarely were there punishments for people who cheated. For every professor that wrote FRAUD in the grade sheet and escalated to the Disciplinary Committee, there were 100 that turned a blind eye or at most confiscated a paper being passed aroun…

"Academic integrity"

https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/hrbodies...

Re: 'Crush this lady': how eBay harassment campaign led to $56M payout

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has to have been more going on, it sure doesn’t add up - unless Ebay was run by a group of cruel Kindergarteners.. At every place I’ve worked, the employees likely had worse thoughts, at least at times, than anything an outsider could publish about the company.

> unless Ebay was run by a group of cruel Kindergarteners I’ve been in the corporate world long enough in my life to know that that is not out of the question

In fact it's almost guaranteed, just like every other company.

Re: 'Crush this lady': how eBay harassment campaign led to $56M payout

#133

Scott Adams [0], who recently passed away, had a great line on human behavior (paraphrased): Whenever people are unsupervised and there is a chance for fraud or bad behavior and, due to the lack of supervision, they believe they won't be caught, you should ALWAYS assume that people will behave badly. For another example, the Google case where it was exposed how many nefarious activities they were up to around auction…

> Whenever people are unsupervised and there is a chance for fraud or bad behavior and, due to the lack of supervision, they believe they won't be caught, you should ALWAYS assume that people will behave badly. Do you have any evidence to support your claim? On the contrary, a 2019 analysis [1] combined 400+ experimental treatments, 44,000+ participants, and 47 countries. Participants surrendered roughly three-quarte…

I don't think these studies meaningfully replicate the motivation of real life situations where there is either a lot of money on the line or emotional investment. Anyone can be honest when it's $20 on the line

Re: 'Crush this lady': how eBay harassment campaign led to $56M payout

#134
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, i've worked long enough with senior mgmt to know that anything of interest for prosecution won't be written down, especially not on company devices. Those making the mistakes of writing things down are those actually prosecuted, the ranks and files.

> anything of interest for prosecution won't be written down, especially not on company devices This vastly overestimates the opsec of most tech executives.

You vastly underestimate how much they take care of things. At the top people manage liability.

Re: 'Crush this lady': how eBay harassment campaign led to $56M payout

#135
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dream a little dream of the world you want, then be prepared for the alarm to go off to rejoin the real world. An insignificant number of people care and while everyone else does business with anyone as long as there's benefit for them. As exhibit A, I present all of history

I wonder if Captain Boycott would agree.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Boycott

Many of the worst offenders have survived boycotts because people don't care enough to change habits. They may vocally state their support of a boycott, yet continue to use the services of the boycott target. (It's easy to change your avatar on the socials as a virtue signal, but it takes effort to actually follow through.) Walmart, Amazon, etc have all survived boycotts but they have not been hurt nor changed their ways. The number of people that have permanently boycotted these places are insignificant. For example, personally, I no longer have a Prime account and do not shop at Walmart. Neither company notice. Even if all of the readers of HN stopped using either service, neither would be affected in a significant way even if they did notice.

Re: 'Crush this lady': how eBay harassment campaign led to $56M payout

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use ebay heavily and I don't see it anymore, except for things that look like typos or people who clearly just don't know how to use ebay. There's no advantage to doing so because sorting/filtering includes shipping.

Sorting isn't strict (or perhaps affected by paid placements?) so buyers still have to look at the prices to see which item is actually the cheapest.

Sorting is strict when you select "Price + Shipping: lowest first", for the main results. It's been that way since they started adding fees to shipping.

Re: 'Crush this lady': how eBay harassment campaign led to $56M payout

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a chance there wasn’t anything incriminating. The top guys kept conversations live or intimated they wanted something done; the lowers took the planning and execution upon themselves.

Mobsters have it down to an art. "You take care of it." means "Murder him and dump the body into a building foundation." "I don't see any problems." can mean "The ambush will happen at the scheduled time. Vinnie will clean up the bodies." etc. You'll also see a lot of politicians using "dog whistle" statements, that are interpreted by listeners to mean something entirely different from the stated words.

"Stand back and stand by."

Re: 'Crush this lady': how eBay harassment campaign led to $56M payout

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a chance there wasn’t anything incriminating. The top guys kept conversations live or intimated they wanted something done; the lowers took the planning and execution upon themselves.

But it's mind-boggling that any subordinate couldn't understand that such levels of depravity and insanity could land them in legal trouble, and that's besides the ethical issue.

I think they fully understood, which is why they all got jail sentences.

Re: 'Crush this lady': how eBay harassment campaign led to $56M payout

#139
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> anything of interest for prosecution won't be written down, especially not on company devices This vastly overestimates the opsec of most tech executives.

I was told to do something that was a crime by my line level manager at a tech company when I was only a few years in my career, with code that he hand wrote and wanted me to type in and commit under my name. When I refused he called me into a 1:1 and verbally told me I would be losing my job if I didn’t and only backed off when I told him he was never getting that paper back and asked if he wanted to go HR right now…

That's a terrible situation, especially for someone early in their career. Glad you stood your ground and had some hard evidence to back you up.

Re: 'Crush this lady': how eBay harassment campaign led to $56M payout

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whenever people are unsupervised and there is a chance for fraud or bad behavior and, due to the lack of supervision, they believe they won't be caught, you should ALWAYS assume that people will behave badly. Do you have any evidence to support your claim? On the contrary, a 2019 analysis [1] combined 400+ experimental treatments, 44,000+ participants, and 47 countries. Participants surrendered roughly three-quarte…

This is so typical. It is known for millennia that people tend to steal and enrich themselves whenever an opportunity arises. Common sense so to say. And you show up with a study. Sorry but I had to point this out. It's not all people, but always people.

> It is known for millennia that people tend to steal and enrich themselves whenever an opportunity arises. Common sense so to say.

People also believed in witches, ghosts and other paranormal and magic phenomena for millennia. Didn't make it reality.

> It's not all people, but always people.

Approx. 1% of the general population are estimated to be psychopaths, with broader estimates going up to 4.5% depending on which diagnostic tool is used. [1]

Rates are significantly higher in specific environments - for example, 15% to 25% in prison inmates. [2]

Does it make sense to tar the 95% for the sins of the 5%?

> Does it make sense to tar the 95% for the sins of the 5%?

Only if one exhibits psychopathic tendencies :-)

There's also the bagel study [3] that shows, among many other interesting stats, that folks up the corporate ladder tend to steal more than those on the lower rungs. Some of the other stats in that study support the notion that people are generally honest, in line with the formal experiments.

Since most society is organized hierarchically, negative behavior at the top can propagate throughout the org. Google's 'Don't be evil' motto comes to mind.

[1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8374040/

[2] https://www.apa.org/monitor/2022/03/ce-corner-psychopathy

[3] https://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/06/magazine/what-the-bagel-m...

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