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Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

arstechnica.com

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Re: Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

#131

Post by musicale »

pmontra wrote: post #57
CoolestBeans wrote: post #31

The discs have been a formality for longer than most gamers understand or want to admit. Sony is discontinuing disc sales as a response to how gamers are buying games not the other way around. So it's an irrational response but an understandable emotional response. It's a final marker of an era that realistically ended more than a decade ago. That video games are not an island: an enclosed experience of just you, the…

I'm still perfectly happy with my solo racing games on PS2, not that I play them much anymore (or I would have bought ought a PS3 4 or 5.) I never understood why I should prefer driving against some punks that spend their evening crashing into the other players on purpose or wait for online races to start. But anyone is different.

> why I should prefer driving against some punks that spend their evening crashing into the other players on purpose

So you don't like Twisted Metal (great PS2 game) or Mario Kart (great game on any Nintendo console)?

Re: Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

#132

Post by ndriscoll »

nradov wrote: post #129
ndriscoll wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong framing. "Intellectual property" has only been a concept for ~40 years. It's an invention inflicted upon us by our current elders. It can just as easily be done away with in favor of property ownership and consumer protection instead. e.g. I had old appliances that came with circuit diagrams. We could mandate by law that any device for sale must provide diagrams/schematics, BOM, and supplier contact information…

Wrong framing. Copyrights and patents have been around for far longer than 40 years. Eliminating IP enforcement rights would destroy economic growth. The media and entertainment industry is relatively small and unimportant. If you occasionally lose access to some games / songs / movies it doesn't matter.

Why would we believe it would destroy economic growth? Typically monopolies are bad for the economy (e.g. most of the big software companies and more recently even hardware companies are focusing on rent extraction, not product development these days), and currently we have over 6% unemployment for new CS grads, so there's plenty of available skilled labor for customization. A huge part of the economy is already dependent on a massive amount of software that was given away for free. I would expect an explosion of development with better consumer protection laws.

The media industry is unimportant, which is why we should repeal their laws that gave them over a lifetime of monopoly status on our culture and heritage.

Re: Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

#133

Post by movedx »

pezezin wrote: post #120
movedx wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It cannot be a "pretend" manifestation, when a physical disc that requires nothing more than an official piece of hardware to use continues to work 100 years into the future (assuming the physical hardware survives that long.) Those are the "rights" that are being fought for in this instance. I'm interested to understand the self-denial and mental gymnastics you're using to make the claim: physically owning something…

> It cannot be a "pretend" manifestation, when a physical disc that requires nothing more than an official piece of hardware to use continues to work 100 years into the future (assuming the physical hardware survives that long.) Those are the "rights" that are being fought for in this instance. That's a pretty big assumption. Back in the day I bought a GameCube and decent game collection. I tried it a few months ago…

> I tried it a few months ago and the optical drive is dead

This is definitely a good reason to give up on consumer rights... the hardware might die. No point having rights if things can break anyway, right? /s

Re: Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

#134

Post by pezezin »

movedx wrote: post #133
pezezin wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It cannot be a "pretend" manifestation, when a physical disc that requires nothing more than an official piece of hardware to use continues to work 100 years into the future (assuming the physical hardware survives that long.) Those are the "rights" that are being fought for in this instance. That's a pretty big assumption. Back in the day I bought a GameCube and decent game collection. I tried it a few months ago…

> I tried it a few months ago and the optical drive is dead This is definitely a good reason to give up on consumer rights... the hardware might die. No point having rights if things can break anyway, right? /s

You didn't understand my point...

Closed platforms like consoles are at the mercy of their manufacturers. If you want consumer rights, stick to open platforms like the PC.

Re: Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

#135

Post by pmontra »

musicale wrote: post #131
pmontra wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still perfectly happy with my solo racing games on PS2, not that I play them much anymore (or I would have bought ought a PS3 4 or 5.) I never understood why I should prefer driving against some punks that spend their evening crashing into the other players on purpose or wait for online races to start. But anyone is different.

> why I should prefer driving against some punks that spend their evening crashing into the other players on purpose So you don't like Twisted Metal (great PS2 game) or Mario Kart (great game on any Nintendo console)?

Mario Kart, definitely not. It's only approximately a racing game. I played it only once, last year at an esports/sports event and managed to get third in the overall championship against the AIs and ahead of my friend who played it a lot.

Twisted Metal, never heard about it. I was in the soft-simulation games (Gran Turismo, the F1 games, etc) and the stuff like Need For Speed, but I think I have a dozen of games, no more than that.

Re: Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

#136

Post by augusto-moura »

benoau wrote: post #104
augusto-moura wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not talking about licenses or owning the game, I'm talking about if a publisher removes a game for whatever reason, you don't immediately lose access to that game, you can play it forever after. That is their current de facto policy, with probably a few exceptions. The discussion on wether you truly own a licensed game is a different thing from what I said.

Developers/Steam are expressly allowed to break the game in-place so even that is an imaginary "right".

You can dowgrade a version of a game, if you want to. Is not as easy as clicking a button, but it is possible and not against ToS

Re: Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

#137

Post by augusto-moura »

wolvoleo wrote: post #105
augusto-moura wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GTA case is because js technically an update from Rockstar, not specifically Steam's fault here. There are always to downgrade a game, but true, it is not as easy as GoG.

No it's not steam's fault but they do allow it to happen.

Would they not allow it? Rockstar is the owner of the game, they can update any removal of content if they want to. Modern games frequently change gameplay, story, and soundtrack between versions

Re: Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

#139

Post by LocalH »

LocalH wrote: post #95
ksymph wrote: post #8

Not a great article, but a very real phenomenon. I recently picked up a banned Nintendo Switch Lite for cheap -- meaning it can't download games or updates off Nintendo's servers, but it can still play cartridge games. And while most games function, there are more often than not critical fixes or significant content updates missing. The console exists in a strange sort of limbo where everything is playable but not in…

They should be required to unban a console given a clear proof of purchase from a previous owner

I know it's "against HN etiquette" to ask about downvotes, but may I ask why I got downvoted? If it's clear that ownership changed from the original hacker to someone else, why should there not be an unban? I'd be fine if they required an "extra" check to make sure that the console is unmodded going forward. Otherwise, this contributes more to e-waste than a good chunk of Apple's iOS shenanigans.
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