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Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

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Re: Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

#121
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe there are games sold today where what’s on the disc is not enough to play it. There is a mandatory A disc is not sufficient. It does not give you the rights you think.

I remember this was true of MMORPGs in the 00s. Not saying that justifies the state of things of course.

It’s somewhat fair for multiplayer only games. Preservationists want the right to stand up their own server and that would be nice, but I get it.

However for games with a real single player component, or ONLY a single player component, there’s no excuse other than they can.

Re: Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

#122
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just straight up false. Apparently you don't understand bankruptcy law. Courts will prioritize the interests of creditors first. And the notion of a law requiring source code to be released in the public domain is so stupid. The source code is an asset which can potentially be sold to benefit creditors. And often the source code contains IP owned by third parties who wouldn't allow a release anyway.

The law is what the people say it is. As the previous generation that created this system dies their successors can repeal eternal copyright laws and institute consumer protections again. e.g. we can demand source escrow to receive copyright (with a short grace period for current copyright holders to register/set up escrow), drastically shorten the period, demand copyrighted material continue to be made available or…

Nah. There's not going to be a law which expropriates someone else's IP due to a third party's bankruptcy. Makes no sense at all.

Re: Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

#123
post #93
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legal rights don't matter if the other party is ever liquidated, or otherwise unable to meet their obligations.

And just like that, you're part of the problem

Fortunately this is not an actual problem which needs to be solved.

Re: Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

#124
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam's policy is that an already published game can only be delisted, allowing old owners to still play the game. I still own the original versions of Skyrim (before Anniversary edition, definitive edition, and all other *ditions), and I can still download it and play it, even though that version is not available for purchase in the store anymore. Xbox and PSN don't have such luxuries AFAIK, after a game is removed…

> Steam's policy is that an already published game can only be delisted, allowing old owners to still play the game. I still own the original versions of Skyrim (before Anniversary edition, definitive edition, and all other *ditions), and I can still download it and play it, even though that version is not available for purchase in the store anymore. No. Their policy is: > This license ends upon termination of (a) th…

That's the license they sign with you, ie the legal commitment they make and powers they reserve.

Policy is the internal, non-binding decision they make about how they exercise those powers, which GP comment accurately described.

Re: Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

#125
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discs do matter in one way. I don't think I have ever seen a digital "purchase" of any significance which I could resell or gift at a later time. Some "in game" things are resellable, but only within the game's ecosystem. All digital games, music, movies, ebooks, audio books, etc are not (AFAIK). So if I get tired of my DVD movie collection, I could sell it or give it to my kids. If I ever decide I'm too old for the…

I believe there are games sold today where what’s on the disc is not enough to play it. There is a mandatory A disc is not sufficient. It does not give you the rights you think.

A disc alone isn't sufficient for reselling without anti-online-DRM policies, but a disc is basically necessary to allow reselling still.

Re: Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

#126

The discs have been a formality for longer than most gamers understand or want to admit. Sony is discontinuing disc sales as a response to how gamers are buying games not the other way around. So it's an irrational response but an understandable emotional response. It's a final marker of an era that realistically ended more than a decade ago. That video games are not an island: an enclosed experience of just you, the…

With the exception of a few (regrettable) "game key" cards, physical Switch 1/2 games are usually playable offline with just the game card and the console. This is part of the appeal of Nintendo consoles - you don't need to connect them to the internet, and they are still terrific for local multiplayer.

And, unlike discs, they play straight off the cartridge, without installation. What a concept!

Re: Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

#127
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law is what the people say it is. As the previous generation that created this system dies their successors can repeal eternal copyright laws and institute consumer protections again. e.g. we can demand source escrow to receive copyright (with a short grace period for current copyright holders to register/set up escrow), drastically shorten the period, demand copyrighted material continue to be made available or…

Nah. There's not going to be a law which expropriates someone else's IP due to a third party's bankruptcy. Makes no sense at all.

Wrong framing. "Intellectual property" has only been a concept for ~40 years. It's an invention inflicted upon us by our current elders. It can just as easily be done away with in favor of property ownership and consumer protection instead.

e.g. I had old appliances that came with circuit diagrams. We could mandate by law that any device for sale must provide diagrams/schematics, BOM, and supplier contact information, any programmable device must provide source code and must not interfere with the owner loading their own code (basically GPL3 by law), etc. This all falls under the umbrella of strong right to repair/property rights, and in an AI world, it makes complete sense to do it. The cost of producing the "IP" will trend toward zero, so why would we protect it over the owner's rights? Likewise, with climate change and environmental destruction as the top issue in the world for our children, we should be mandating strong repairability criteria and strongly disincentivizing consumerism.

For media/entertainment, even today, you can realize that our problem is already one of curation by considering what the world would be like with ~20 year copyright (or if you're just willing to pirate). 10s of millions of books, 10s of millions of songs, 10s of thousands of games. There's already more media than anyone could approach taking in. Even sticking to the best 0.1% (whatever that is) would fill a lifetime. There's simply no reason to continue this nonsense.

Re: Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

#128
post #58
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Disc are not magic totems. There is nothing promising you the disc you will work in 10 years, 10 months, 10 days. Nothing ensuring that you can resell it for >$0. They could trivially make the disc hold a one-time redemption for the game. I think the funniest thing about all of this to me is that we're literally talking about the company that put rootkits on their CDs to try to stop the content from being used in a…

That was Sony music, not Sony Computer Entertainment. Different divisions of a mega corp. We know divisions fight. The hardware business had to make MiniDisc worse so Sony Music wouldn’t be too mad.

If you could point to a division that had incentive to try to block the types of online checks like I described, that would be one thing, but I don't think there's any evidence of that, so it's not that much of a leap to fall back to assuming that the overall incentives coming from the top of the company that led to the decision "let's put malware on the discs we sell to try to force people to buy even more of them in the future" might be relevant.

Re: Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

#129
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah. There's not going to be a law which expropriates someone else's IP due to a third party's bankruptcy. Makes no sense at all.

Wrong framing. "Intellectual property" has only been a concept for ~40 years. It's an invention inflicted upon us by our current elders. It can just as easily be done away with in favor of property ownership and consumer protection instead. e.g. I had old appliances that came with circuit diagrams. We could mandate by law that any device for sale must provide diagrams/schematics, BOM, and supplier contact information…

Wrong framing. Copyrights and patents have been around for far longer than 40 years. Eliminating IP enforcement rights would destroy economic growth.

The media and entertainment industry is relatively small and unimportant. If you occasionally lose access to some games / songs / movies it doesn't matter.

Re: Just because a game is on disc doesn't mean it will work in the future

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the exception of a few (regrettable) "game key" cards, physical Switch 1/2 games are usually playable offline with just the game card and the console. This is part of the appeal of Nintendo consoles - you don't need to connect them to the internet, and they are still terrific for local multiplayer.

On the Switch 2 the game key card only needs the internet to download the game initially. Once it’s downloaded the GKC authorizes the license totally offline and you can play offline like any other cartridge. You’d only need internet for online features like any other game. If you have another Switch with the game already on it you can even download the game from that Switch using the “match version” feature and then…

I didn't realize you could directly download peer-to-peer to another Switch using "match version". I haven't tried that - does it work without internet authorization ("checking if the software can be played" or something)?
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