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Why Book Corners won't sync contributions back to OpenStreetMap

andreagrandi.it

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Re: Why Book Corners won't sync contributions back to OpenStreetMap

#61

Post by londons_explore »

Doctor_Fegg wrote: post #49
greyb wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A project like OSM would be bombarded with spam and junk submissions if it didn’t have these barriers to submission. I'm not sure about this. The barriers to submissions are honestly more likely to cause object and amenity level data to become out of date. Google is able to have such an up to date place database because it relies on a large quantity of crowdsourced submissions, and employs consensus to figure out th…

Google employs _engineers_ to figure out the truth. If an import pipeline is causing problems, a higher-up can just say “stop doing that or we’ll stop your pay cheque”. OSM doesn’t have that option. If it didn’t have these guardrails in place, a million CS students will see some open-looking data (or not even that, maybe something scraped) and throw it into OSM with a cursory Python script, resulting in an almighty m…

Another approach is to simply accept low quality data into the database, yet have some kind of filtering during the viewing stage.

Eg. Draw me a map, but include only data points tagged with 'osm-license-verified-and-spam-filtered'.

That way users of the data get to decide their own tradeoff between legal risks, data freshness, spam, etc.

Re: Why Book Corners won't sync contributions back to OpenStreetMap

#62

Post by zimpenfish »

greyb wrote: post #32
Aurornis wrote: post #3

In summary: Because OSM requires work and care to be put into the data submission plan, which isn’t worth it. A project like OSM would be bombarded with spam and junk submissions if it didn’t have these barriers to submission. Understandable.

>A project like OSM would be bombarded with spam and junk submissions if it didn’t have these barriers to submission. I'm not sure about this. The barriers to submissions are honestly more likely to cause object and amenity level data to become out of date. Google is able to have such an up to date place database because it relies on a large quantity of crowdsourced submissions, and employs consensus to figure out th…

> Google is able to have such an up to date place database because it relies on a large quantity of crowdsourced submissions

Google denied our address existed[0] for years (which caused several problems with online shops that used Google Maps as the source of truth for address resolution) - took a good few tries to get them to actually add it.

Currently Google Maps is showing an "ALDI charging station" directly across the road when it is, in fact, about a mile down the road.

It's also showing a Chipotle just around the corner when, you'll not be surprised, there is no Chipotle there and, hilariously, the photo it has is of the Chipotle at the O2 Dome a good 10km away.

Absolute clusterfuck of nonsense is Google Maps.

[0] A 1960s London estate which was adequately represented on Google Maps and Streetview, mind.

Re: Why Book Corners won't sync contributions back to OpenStreetMap

#63

Post by Rygian »

DoctorOetker wrote: post #15

I've always been confused why OSM doesn't design a cheap open source stereo imager, some finetuned modern YOLO neural network could detect and blur the glass parts of windows, doorbells, nameplates and humans in the scene. It could use GPS for rough geolocation, and 3D models of all the scenery could be generated. New contribution traces would contain changes compared to the past. Volunteers could request new paths i…

Have you suggested this to the folks at Panoramax? https://panoramax.fr/

They're already covering the blurring, as well as detecting useful objects in imagery (traffic signs for a start).

Re: Why Book Corners won't sync contributions back to OpenStreetMap

#64

Post by darren_ »

Doctor_Fegg wrote: post #49
greyb wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A project like OSM would be bombarded with spam and junk submissions if it didn’t have these barriers to submission. I'm not sure about this. The barriers to submissions are honestly more likely to cause object and amenity level data to become out of date. Google is able to have such an up to date place database because it relies on a large quantity of crowdsourced submissions, and employs consensus to figure out th…

Google employs _engineers_ to figure out the truth. If an import pipeline is causing problems, a higher-up can just say “stop doing that or we’ll stop your pay cheque”. OSM doesn’t have that option. If it didn’t have these guardrails in place, a million CS students will see some open-looking data (or not even that, maybe something scraped) and throw it into OSM with a cursory Python script, resulting in an almighty m…

> Google employs _engineers_ to figure out the truth.

and people say hacker news has no sense of humour

Re: Why Book Corners won't sync contributions back to OpenStreetMap

#65

Post by michaelt »

zimpenfish wrote: post #62
greyb wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A project like OSM would be bombarded with spam and junk submissions if it didn’t have these barriers to submission. I'm not sure about this. The barriers to submissions are honestly more likely to cause object and amenity level data to become out of date. Google is able to have such an up to date place database because it relies on a large quantity of crowdsourced submissions, and employs consensus to figure out th…

> Google is able to have such an up to date place database because it relies on a large quantity of crowdsourced submissions Google denied our address existed[0] for years (which caused several problems with online shops that used Google Maps as the source of truth for address resolution) - took a good few tries to get them to actually add it. Currently Google Maps is showing an "ALDI charging station" directly acros…

It's bizarre, isn't it?

I work in a warehouse, and if you type our address into Google Maps, it puts the maker right on our building. But they also label the building as a pub, two buildings down the street.

I've submitted corrections, and had a reply saying they were accepted. You can look on street view and the true location of both pub and warehouse are clearly visible, so there'd be no problem verifying my correction. Their map view includes the outline of the pub, as does their satellite view. The pub's been there 10 years, the warehouse since the 1990s. The Street View car has driven through the pub's car park three times.

And yet, the pub marker stays in the wrong place.

Re: Why Book Corners won't sync contributions back to OpenStreetMap

#66

Post by Dylan16807 »

Aurornis wrote: post #3

In summary: Because OSM requires work and care to be put into the data submission plan, which isn’t worth it. A project like OSM would be bombarded with spam and junk submissions if it didn’t have these barriers to submission. Understandable.

That's not how I would summarize it. OSM is only giving them two options: apply to be treated as an automated sync source, or don't submit at all. They're willing to put in work and care but not to handle all the other complex barriers.

Re: Why Book Corners won't sync contributions back to OpenStreetMap

#67

Post by zaik »

andreagrandi wrote: post #55

Hello folks, author of Book Corners here. I just made the whole libraries db available for download (it's OBDL licensed). It's available from every users dashboard (it's a ~2 MB compressed GeoJSON file). It includes both libraries orignally imported from OSM and additional libraries added by users. While I still think the whole OSM process to submit back is a bit too much for the time I have available (but I still un…

Have you considered making OSM itself the submission mechanism? This could be as simple as having a static guide on how to add bookcases to OSM. Your app could also act as an OSM editor specifically for bookcases (not a general one).

Re: Why Book Corners won't sync contributions back to OpenStreetMap

#68

Post by michaelt »

zaik wrote: post #67
andreagrandi wrote: post #55

Hello folks, author of Book Corners here. I just made the whole libraries db available for download (it's OBDL licensed). It's available from every users dashboard (it's a ~2 MB compressed GeoJSON file). It includes both libraries orignally imported from OSM and additional libraries added by users. While I still think the whole OSM process to submit back is a bit too much for the time I have available (but I still un…

Have you considered making OSM itself the submission mechanism? This could be as simple as having a static guide on how to add bookcases to OSM. Your app could also act as an OSM editor specifically for bookcases (not a general one).

Presumably they hope to provide richer data (i.e. photograph of the library) that OSM isn't interested in.

Re: Why Book Corners won't sync contributions back to OpenStreetMap

#69

Post by phoronixrly »

zaik wrote: post #67
andreagrandi wrote: post #55

Hello folks, author of Book Corners here. I just made the whole libraries db available for download (it's OBDL licensed). It's available from every users dashboard (it's a ~2 MB compressed GeoJSON file). It includes both libraries orignally imported from OSM and additional libraries added by users. While I still think the whole OSM process to submit back is a bit too much for the time I have available (but I still un…

Have you considered making OSM itself the submission mechanism? This could be as simple as having a static guide on how to add bookcases to OSM. Your app could also act as an OSM editor specifically for bookcases (not a general one).

This is the correct approach.

Re: Why Book Corners won't sync contributions back to OpenStreetMap

#70

Post by emj »

boredatoms wrote: post #17
zx8080 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can make an OSM account, go to the website, click, add a thing, hit submit, done. Someone will review it. I will share an unpopular opinion: thil will only make a freeworkforce for those projects who profit from using OSM. And the OSM has surprisingly unreliable data quality for walking around even in the popular tourist places like Tokyo or Kyoto, or New York. I've tried, and it's so worse than GMaps (or Bing)…

> No work hours of Starbucks, no local dining cafe, no menu contributions. This moves the goal posts of OSM

It is a very good point though, Honestly we should have tried to solve that. It is badly needed in a map nowdays. At the moment there is no way to map or display these things and I think there should be.
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