Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Unraveling the mysteries of habit formation

kyoto-u.ac.jp

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–58 of 58 posts

Re: Unraveling the mysteries of habit formation

#51

Post by caminante »

xyzelement wrote: post #35
thephyber wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a fine line between what you described and toxic positivity. It's important not to ruminate on bad thoughts (when your proposal is a good replacement behavior), but it's also important not to bottle up natural human emotions as if they are unjustified or unreal. A thought exercise: if it wasn't your behavior that caused your own despair, but your spouse's behaviors that caused you irritation / grief. Do you t…

In your comment and the ones responding to you there's an assumption that your partner's behavior is the bigger problem compared to your reaction to it. In my experience I've generally fucked things up precisely because my reaction was worse and inappropriate compared to what the partner did. I think I am "lucky" in that my wife is amazing and I don't have to be on-guard again truly malicious and inappropriate behavi…

That's the point.

The grandparent said Rocket doesn't slip into despair, not tries not to slip.

That's unrealistic and tracks with toxic positivity. If everyone had the muscle to process their initial and secondary emotions in a calm manner, then airport bookshelves would be empty.

You even ask how people can get swept in such situations when the pathologies for trauma bonds and "s/he beats me because they love me" are pretty clear.

Re: Unraveling the mysteries of habit formation

#52

Post by xyzelement »

caminante wrote: post #51
xyzelement wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your comment and the ones responding to you there's an assumption that your partner's behavior is the bigger problem compared to your reaction to it. In my experience I've generally fucked things up precisely because my reaction was worse and inappropriate compared to what the partner did. I think I am "lucky" in that my wife is amazing and I don't have to be on-guard again truly malicious and inappropriate behavi…

That's the point. The grandparent said Rocket doesn't slip into despair, not tries not to slip. That's unrealistic and tracks with toxic positivity. If everyone had the muscle to process their initial and secondary emotions in a calm manner, then airport bookshelves would be empty. You even ask how people can get swept in such situations when the pathologies for trauma bonds and "s/he beats me because they love me" a…

I agree with you on everything except I don't understand why you are labeling the healthy alternative "toxic".

Re: Unraveling the mysteries of habit formation

#53

Post by caminante »

xyzelement wrote: post #52
caminante wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the point. The grandparent said Rocket doesn't slip into despair, not tries not to slip. That's unrealistic and tracks with toxic positivity. If everyone had the muscle to process their initial and secondary emotions in a calm manner, then airport bookshelves would be empty. You even ask how people can get swept in such situations when the pathologies for trauma bonds and "s/he beats me because they love me" a…

I agree with you on everything except I don't understand why you are labeling the healthy alternative "toxic".

I don't think I am.

I made a distinction between people who have the self-esteem muscle (healthy) and those who subscribe to unsustainable, toxic positivity (unhealthy).

Re: Unraveling the mysteries of habit formation

#54

Post by sokka_h2otribe »

teiferer wrote: post #26
justonenote wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it absolutely is a habit, the fact that it affects you physiologically via pharma does not make it not a habit. a habit is something you do habitually, that is the exact definition of the word, and the reasons people do them vary wildly. I used heroin as an an extreme example. Going for a 5k jog every morning is also a habit that affects your brain chemistry, through different mechanisms, and can also be addictive. I…

> it absolutely is a habit You can follow the definition that you like, but the typical habit is something you just do without thinking. Taking drugs is mostly something you do to get the kick and in later stages because you don't want the withdrawal symptoms. Some addictions are quite habitual too (smoking is not just for the nicotin but also having the habit of taking a break for 10 minutes out on the balcony), but…

Taking a drug is absolutely a habit, it's a habit of soothing an emotion or seeking an emotion. "My body feels this, therefore I will do that"

This is "bad, bored, tired" or anything else. "That" is the drug administration, experience, etc.

Much of addiction therapy is understanding that cycle and finding a different course of action between "my body feels this" and "doing other things instead of that drug"

Re: Unraveling the mysteries of habit formation

#55

Post by sandspar »

davidmyr wrote: post #2

What also still puzzles me about habits is the fact that once I have a routine (like going to the gym at 6am) it is super easy. But once I lost it I struggle a lot to get it back.

The psychologist William James described habits as like winding a string of yarn into a ball. If you drop the ball then you have to spend time rewinding it. Also, a ball that has been being wound for a long time will be easier to rewind than a newer and smaller ball.

Re: Unraveling the mysteries of habit formation

#56

Post by sandspar »

shermantanktop wrote: post #16
davidmyr wrote: post #2

What also still puzzles me about habits is the fact that once I have a routine (like going to the gym at 6am) it is super easy. But once I lost it I struggle a lot to get it back.

When I start a habit it feels like a one-way trip to a new life. If I break it, even once, I realize it’s not, it’s just a thing that I can do or not do. Now starting that habit again feels much less consequential.

I find this as well, that breaking a habit kills some of its magic. However I sometimes prefer it this way. It might be good to hold habits with intellect rather than superstition. At least it's more honest.

Re: Unraveling the mysteries of habit formation

#57

Post by shermantanktop »

justonenote wrote: post #18
shermantanktop wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking heroin may be called “a habit” but it’s not a habit. It’s an addiction with physical and neurological elements.

it absolutely is a habit, the fact that it affects you physiologically via pharma does not make it not a habit. a habit is something you do habitually, that is the exact definition of the word, and the reasons people do them vary wildly. I used heroin as an an extreme example. Going for a 5k jog every morning is also a habit that affects your brain chemistry, through different mechanisms, and can also be addictive. I…

I actually agree. I should have said “just a habit.”

Calling heroin a “habit” is putting it in a class which includes doodling, tapping your foot, talking a particular route to work, or putting your jacket on the same way every time.

In other words, it is technically a member of a class but very different than the median member of that class. This is why naive use of centroid clustering to reduce dimensionality and distance quantization leads to bad results.

I think Johnny Thunders would agree.

Re: Unraveling the mysteries of habit formation

#58

Post by bulbar »

justonenote wrote: post #47
bulbar wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> habit is something you do habitually, that is the exact definition of the word That definition is too broad to be useful is absolutely not a definition used in the given context (psychology). Same goes for the examples, you can generalize statements to to get common denominators (affects the brain), but it's not useful to do so, it's misleading.

the examples I used were not generalized in any way at all. They were specifically picked examples that were at or approaching the limit of the definition, which is is a well known way of examining things in order to model them better. if you want a more specific and narrow definition for certain classes of XYZ, you can do that, I wasn't trying to do that here.

No need to come up with your own definition, professionals have settled on what those terms should mean to be useful and it's not what your describe.
Post reply on HN