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Unraveling the mysteries of habit formation

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Re: Unraveling the mysteries of habit formation

#11

Post by thephyber »

getstowly wrote: post #7

I was watching a Charlie Rocket interview today and I got a lot of inspiration from him. He made it a habit of staying positive, turning a loss into a win and always finding the upside. Instead of getting sucked into the despair, he takes a loss as a learning lesson. Good habits can be hard to find but once you get into the habit of something, it becomes super easy. Everything is hard to do -- if it was easy, everybo…

There's a fine line between what you described and toxic positivity.

It's important not to ruminate on bad thoughts (when your proposal is a good replacement behavior), but it's also important not to bottle up natural human emotions as if they are unjustified or unreal.

A thought exercise: if it wasn't your behavior that caused your own despair, but your spouse's behaviors that caused you irritation / grief. Do you think it's better to paint a smile on yourself and ignore the underlying problem, or spend a few minutes feeling your emotions, describe the cause to your partner, then politely suggest a substitute behavior? The former builds resentment and bottles up strong emotions for an inevitable outburst down the road. The other diffuses the emotion, potentially alleviates the offending behavior, and doesn't betray what you authentically emote.

Re: Unraveling the mysteries of habit formation

#12

Post by cindyllm »

getstowly wrote: post #7

I was watching a Charlie Rocket interview today and I got a lot of inspiration from him. He made it a habit of staying positive, turning a loss into a win and always finding the upside. Instead of getting sucked into the despair, he takes a loss as a learning lesson. Good habits can be hard to find but once you get into the habit of something, it becomes super easy. Everything is hard to do -- if it was easy, everybo…

[dead]

Re: Unraveling the mysteries of habit formation

#13

Post by justonenote »

getstowly wrote: post #7

I was watching a Charlie Rocket interview today and I got a lot of inspiration from him. He made it a habit of staying positive, turning a loss into a win and always finding the upside. Instead of getting sucked into the despair, he takes a loss as a learning lesson. Good habits can be hard to find but once you get into the habit of something, it becomes super easy. Everything is hard to do -- if it was easy, everybo…

Agree with most everything and will check our that interview, that attitude is how I try and live, but the last sentence is obviously not true. Taking heroin is a habit, going to a gym is a habit, and obviously one is much easier to stop whether either willfully or not.

I'd say the ease which you can pick up habits or drop them is extremely variable across the specific habit and person. (as a different example, someone with less social awareness will find it harder to pick up the habit of being a hospitable host than someone it comes naturally to, but once learned its probably fairly easy to maintain)

One of my favorite quotes is, "first the man makes the habit, then the habit makes the man" , and it works both ways, good and bad. I really think this is something that should be taught much more explicitly in school to everyone, rather than leaving it only in places like sports and the military.

Re: Unraveling the mysteries of habit formation

#14

Post by shermantanktop »

justonenote wrote: post #13
getstowly wrote: post #7

I was watching a Charlie Rocket interview today and I got a lot of inspiration from him. He made it a habit of staying positive, turning a loss into a win and always finding the upside. Instead of getting sucked into the despair, he takes a loss as a learning lesson. Good habits can be hard to find but once you get into the habit of something, it becomes super easy. Everything is hard to do -- if it was easy, everybo…

Agree with most everything and will check our that interview, that attitude is how I try and live, but the last sentence is obviously not true. Taking heroin is a habit, going to a gym is a habit, and obviously one is much easier to stop whether either willfully or not. I'd say the ease which you can pick up habits or drop them is extremely variable across the specific habit and person. (as a different example, someo…

Taking heroin may be called “a habit” but it’s not a habit. It’s an addiction with physical and neurological elements.

Re: Unraveling the mysteries of habit formation

#16

Post by shermantanktop »

davidmyr wrote: post #2

What also still puzzles me about habits is the fact that once I have a routine (like going to the gym at 6am) it is super easy. But once I lost it I struggle a lot to get it back.

When I start a habit it feels like a one-way trip to a new life. If I break it, even once, I realize it’s not, it’s just a thing that I can do or not do. Now starting that habit again feels much less consequential.

Re: Unraveling the mysteries of habit formation

#17

Post by sublinear »

thephyber wrote: post #11
getstowly wrote: post #7

I was watching a Charlie Rocket interview today and I got a lot of inspiration from him. He made it a habit of staying positive, turning a loss into a win and always finding the upside. Instead of getting sucked into the despair, he takes a loss as a learning lesson. Good habits can be hard to find but once you get into the habit of something, it becomes super easy. Everything is hard to do -- if it was easy, everybo…

There's a fine line between what you described and toxic positivity. It's important not to ruminate on bad thoughts (when your proposal is a good replacement behavior), but it's also important not to bottle up natural human emotions as if they are unjustified or unreal. A thought exercise: if it wasn't your behavior that caused your own despair, but your spouse's behaviors that caused you irritation / grief. Do you t…

I think you're only only disagreeing in the premise of your reply, and not the substance of it.

The unnecessary emotion is the problem and that emotion is 100% caused by inexperience. The surest way to stay confused is to overindulge in the emotions blinding you. Worse would be wallowing in it with your partner.

Communicating the emotions first and then rambling your unfiltered thoughts will just cause more confusion. This is exactly how most couples fuck everything up. You should instead take the time to process the emotions on your own and then find the burning question underneath it all.

The more you do this, the less time you'll need to waste on the emotions and the more effective you'll be when you choose to speak or act.

Re: Unraveling the mysteries of habit formation

#18

Post by justonenote »

shermantanktop wrote: post #14
justonenote wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with most everything and will check our that interview, that attitude is how I try and live, but the last sentence is obviously not true. Taking heroin is a habit, going to a gym is a habit, and obviously one is much easier to stop whether either willfully or not. I'd say the ease which you can pick up habits or drop them is extremely variable across the specific habit and person. (as a different example, someo…

Taking heroin may be called “a habit” but it’s not a habit. It’s an addiction with physical and neurological elements.

it absolutely is a habit, the fact that it affects you physiologically via pharma does not make it not a habit. a habit is something you do habitually, that is the exact definition of the word, and the reasons people do them vary wildly. I used heroin as an an extreme example.

Going for a 5k jog every morning is also a habit that affects your brain chemistry, through different mechanisms, and can also be addictive. It's obviously much healthier, but its still a habit, that is reinforced via brain chemistry rewards etc (addictive in some people). It's not as widely seen or known but there is a small cohort of people who exercise becomes a problematic habit and ends up being detrimental to their health.

I suggest you check the definition of the words. I specifically wasn't talking about addiction because that is just one axis of what can make up a habit. Drinking water is a habit that is not addictive but pretty hard to quit. If you take a wider view there are tons of habits that are either harmful or positive, but have no addictive component, and have no chemical component, and are either hard or easy to pickup / drop.

Re: Unraveling the mysteries of habit formation

#19

Post by dripdry45 »

sublinear wrote: post #17
thephyber wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a fine line between what you described and toxic positivity. It's important not to ruminate on bad thoughts (when your proposal is a good replacement behavior), but it's also important not to bottle up natural human emotions as if they are unjustified or unreal. A thought exercise: if it wasn't your behavior that caused your own despair, but your spouse's behaviors that caused you irritation / grief. Do you t…

I think you're only only disagreeing in the premise of your reply, and not the substance of it. The unnecessary emotion is the problem and that emotion is 100% caused by inexperience. The surest way to stay confused is to overindulge in the emotions blinding you. Worse would be wallowing in it with your partner. Communicating the emotions first and then rambling your unfiltered thoughts will just cause more confusion…

Or the more confused everything becomes, and it just gets bottled up because there’s too much going on, and the partner gets away with their bad behavior and never has to take responsibility for their actions.

forming a habit involves taking an action and having a result. A consequence. Talking about it does not work for a lot of people. They need to be pavlov’d.

Once those difficult emotions are cool, everyone can explain what you did and why, yes. I just don’t think that always waiting for things to “cool off“ is actually helpful, it robs people of the consequences of their actions. People need immediate consequences to reinforce behaviors.

Re: Unraveling the mysteries of habit formation

#20

Post by bryanrasmussen »

justonenote wrote: post #18
shermantanktop wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking heroin may be called “a habit” but it’s not a habit. It’s an addiction with physical and neurological elements.

it absolutely is a habit, the fact that it affects you physiologically via pharma does not make it not a habit. a habit is something you do habitually, that is the exact definition of the word, and the reasons people do them vary wildly. I used heroin as an an extreme example. Going for a 5k jog every morning is also a habit that affects your brain chemistry, through different mechanisms, and can also be addictive. I…

Merriam-Webster does of course have addiction as a habit, but it singles it out as being different than other definitions https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/habit

perhaps this is one of those definitions that are in flux and we are moving from taking drugs as a habit, to first having a drug habit, and soon, no longer a habit but an addiction.

I would have to say that in light of the other definitions of habit it does seem reasonable to separate them.

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