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What liberal arts education is for (2024)

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Re: What liberal arts education is for (2024)

#61
post #24

The liberal arts education was originally conceived to educate the leaders of society. That is where the free-minded pedagogical angle comes from, it's explicitly privileged. The idea was that if the leaders of society learned what it means to have values, integrity, what it is to be virtuous, etc, then they would diffuse those values into society and create a just world. Society would transcend in the image of the g…

The ruling class received a classical education and many went on to a law degree. By becoming judges, solicitors, prosecutors, and politicians, they kept their position in society. Engineers, administrators, and medical doctors are not members of the ruling class. The former considered themselves natural leaders and determined society’s direction. Unless a humanities department belonged to one of the two universities the elite sent their children to, it was a fraud. They mimicked Oxford or Harvard but was not the educational institution the elite went to.

Re: What liberal arts education is for (2024)

#62
post #24

The liberal arts education was originally conceived to educate the leaders of society. That is where the free-minded pedagogical angle comes from, it's explicitly privileged. The idea was that if the leaders of society learned what it means to have values, integrity, what it is to be virtuous, etc, then they would diffuse those values into society and create a just world. Society would transcend in the image of the g…

As someone who grew up poor and around dubious morals, nothing about university suggests to me that this is the case. On the other hand, the Confucian classics and perhaps the Ancient Greek works immediately dive into virtue and the likes. What did I learn from my Japanese history class? To not let power into the hands of zealous military foot soldiers? Who took 大正,昭和,and 武士道 too seriously? But the problem with the C…

If you look into modern Western philosophy, it is not much better. Instead it embraces moral nihilism and the only thing it teaches is do whatever you want.

I am Catholic. Catholicism is far from perfect. But it teaches two principles which I believe in. We are all brothers and sisters, equally deserving in dignity and respect. We are in this journey of life together and we should strive for the common good meaning we should help the less fortunate. People are not valued by how much tax they pay and cannot be discarded when they are no longer “useful”.

Re: What liberal arts education is for (2024)

#63
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The humanities are what tells you whether to build a bomb or a bridge etc. That's just the justification they give for their existence. You neither need not count on someone who wrote a thesis on 'feminist perspective of aztek dance' or some nonsense like that. The only reason humanities departments are this big today is because of the biological waste who can't make it to STEM or any other useful profession. If we…

Or calligraphy class. What a waste! What has that ever brought us except the entire Macintosh line of computers? You never know when something is going to pay off somewhere. You bag on the feminist perspective on Aztec dance, but that's someone new looking at something in a way no one has before. And you never know what might get found. Maybe it's nothing. But if we stop looking, were only finding nothing, guaranteed…

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Re: What liberal arts education is for (2024)

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You neither need not count on someone who wrote a thesis on 'feminist perspective of aztek dance' I like how we just make up fake arguments in incoherent grammar as a reason to criticize the humanities. There'd be irony there if people still were taught what that meant. > just peddling political nonsense Is this because the word liberal is in the name? Because that's not what that word means in this context.

Liberalism and leftism have parted ways in the United States. Liberalism is good but the progressive left that seem to be in charge of liberal arts in academia have rejected liberalism and its values. Perhaps we should rename the liberal arts programs in American institutions of higher learning to the progressive arts to remind people of where the problem really lies, dohohoho.

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Re: What liberal arts education is for (2024)

#65
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The humanities are what tells you whether to build a bomb or a bridge etc. That's just the justification they give for their existence. You neither need not count on someone who wrote a thesis on 'feminist perspective of aztek dance' or some nonsense like that. The only reason humanities departments are this big today is because of the biological waste who can't make it to STEM or any other useful profession. If we…

> You neither need not count on someone who wrote a thesis on 'feminist perspective of aztek dance' or some nonsense like that. I like how this criticism can never point to anything real, people just make something up and then assign an implausibly large budget to it and then say everyone is doing that.

Good that you asked, I found even worse wastages of your taxpayer money.

https://scholarspace.manoa.hawaii.edu/items/1d69a970-812a-43...

Or let's talk about our own field:

https://www.felienne.com/archives/8470

Everyone knows how ridiculous anti-science, anti-logic, and anti-progress propaganda has gotten. Anyone arguing otherwise is engaging in bad faith rhetoric.

Aside- the right had all the chances to be the side of science and logic, given how left-liberals deny genetics and realities of evolution. Alas, they have worse issues.

Re: What liberal arts education is for (2024)

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the article? As it highlights elegantly, "liberal arts" is about the educational methodology and structure, not the course material. You can learn STEM subjects in a liberal arts education. > fairly easily... not so easy. Yea, totally, STEM majors are inherently special and better at learning ;)

STEM majors are inherently better overall. Are you trying to be sarcastic or funny? I can't tell. I've yet to find a liberal arts grad who even knows what a partial differential equation is.

> Are you trying to be sarcastic or funny? I can't tell.

Take a liberal arts class and your reading comprehension may improve.

> knows what a partial differential equation is.

I’ve met a few but tbh that’s a pretty weird way to judge “inherently better”.

Re: What liberal arts education is for (2024)

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A supposedly smart engineer type should be smart enough to spot the hole in this argument in their sleep. "You need flour to make a cake." "I have plenty of flour and it never turned into a cake." You have observed that it's possible to be educated and unwise. Any individual may or may not be worth a damn at anything regardless of anything. But you very rarely arrive at wisdom just by ignorant native intuition. At be…

> Basically there is no way to spin it that being ignorant is better than being educated. Being educated in things that are not true is worse than being ignorant. For example, advocacy of things like socialism that do not work.

It's just as important to know untrue things as true things. Believing untrue things is something else entirely, and the only way to know the difference...is to be fucking educated instead of ignorant.

Simply being experienced is also being educated. I didn't say any particular method of becoming educated. Being eductaed does not mean "someone else tells you something and you adopt it end program".

Re: What liberal arts education is for (2024)

#68
post #16
post #11

> The class turned out to be more or less “A Letter (singular) of Paul:” we spent the semester reading Paul’s letter to the Romans, at a rate of about 3 sentences per week. Per week! That's not a liberal education. That's religious brainwashing. It's the kind of thing madrassas and yeshivas do - obsessively school students on a very few texts said to be sacred. Liberal education was traditionally broad. There are cur…

St. Paul's writing has this effect on people. It's either a burst of love and joy or seething hatred. Never in the middle. :D > There are curricula based on the Great Books. List not including the greatest book of them all... What did they mean by this?

> St. Paul's writing has this effect on people.

Huh? Corinthians (Paul's First Letter to the Christians at Corinth) is a policy memo. He's trying to get his organization running properly.

Re: What liberal arts education is for (2024)

#69
post #68
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

St. Paul's writing has this effect on people. It's either a burst of love and joy or seething hatred. Never in the middle. :D > There are curricula based on the Great Books. List not including the greatest book of them all... What did they mean by this?

> St. Paul's writing has this effect on people. Huh? Corinthians (Paul's First Letter to the Christians at Corinth) is a policy memo. He's trying to get his organization running properly.

Are we reading the same letter?

1 Corinthians 13 has inspired millions. I think I know several movies quoting it.

Re: What liberal arts education is for (2024)

#70
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might need to get out more, many BAs understand what differential equations are. He won a scholarship to Trinity College, Cambridge, in 1890 and graduated in 1893 with a Bachelor of Arts. At Cambridge, Russell was introduced to philosophy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertrand_Russell

Never met him. Have you?

You'd have to be about my age or older to have met him, and, at least according to my mother, I did meet him in Wales and was bounced on his knee. Go figure.

I learnt more about his work from his successors who were / are a mix of philosophy and mathematics majors, the majority fully aware of partial differential equations at the very least.

Of the people my age, there are folks such as Dominic Hyde who majored in liberal arts while studying both math and physics alongside Jerome Gauntlett (who did not major in liberal arts .. although he has acted alongside Nicole Kidman) and others. They all grok PDEs.

Closer to our mutual "home", HN on ycombinator, I understand that Paul Graham, the forum founder and co-creator of the Arc programming language, is yet another liberal arts major who understands what PDE's are.

* https://hpi.uq.edu.au/profile/388/dominic-hyde

* https://profiles.imperial.ac.uk/j.gauntlett

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Graham_(programmer)

It's a wide world, get out and meet more people.

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