What liberal arts education is for (2024) • Hacker News Board

Re: What liberal arts education is for (2024)

#11

Post by Animats » Sat, Aug 01, 2026, 6:04 AM UTC

> The class turned out to be more or less “A Letter (singular) of Paul:” we spent the semester reading Paul’s letter to the Romans, at a rate of about 3 sentences per week. Per week!

That's not a liberal education. That's religious brainwashing. It's the kind of thing madrassas and yeshivas do - obsessively school students on a very few texts said to be sacred.

Liberal education was traditionally broad. There are curricula based on the Great Books. [1] They can be criticized for being retro, but they are not narrow.

[1] https://www.sjc.edu/academic-programs/undergraduate/great-bo...

Re: What liberal arts education is for (2024)

#12

Post by alephnerd » Sat, Aug 01, 2026, 6:07 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #11

> The class turned out to be more or less “A Letter (singular) of Paul:” we spent the semester reading Paul’s letter to the Romans, at a rate of about 3 sentences per week. Per week! That's not a liberal education. That's religious brainwashing. It's the kind of thing madrassas and yeshivas do - obsessively school students on a very few texts said to be sacred. Liberal education was traditionally broad. There are cur…

There's nothing inherently wrong with theological education assuming it is also clubbed with other curricula and is not dogmatic in nature.

Most major theological programs in the US like Harvard, Columbia, Yale, Chicago, Vandy, and Notre Dame take this kind of an interdisciplinary approach.

The issue with madrassas and some hardcore yeshivas and seminaries is they do not allow any curricula that isn't litigurical in nature.

> Liberal education was traditionally broad. There are curricula based on the Great Books. [1] They can be criticized for being retro, but they are not narrow

I've found the Great Books curricula to be closer in style to madrassa and hardcore yeshivot curricula than a traditional liberal arts education, as they don't actively try to connect past texts and treatise with the present.

The Great Books curriculum is itself a holdover from back when UChicago was meant to be a fundy evangelical theological program.

Re: What liberal arts education is for (2024)

#13

Post by mdp2021 » Sat, Aug 01, 2026, 6:11 AM UTC

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #8

Yet another dubious claim that "skills of close reading and critical questioning" are the products of a liberal arts education. Students can gain such things just fine in a STEM field if they care enough and aren't the sort who are just doing the bare minimum to get the sheepskin.

> Students can gain such things just fine in a STEM field

As long as you do not claim that "living only on proteins or stones and without carbs or leaves would be a good idea".

Re: What liberal arts education is for (2024)

#14

Post by WalterBright » Sat, Aug 01, 2026, 6:16 AM UTC

vineyardmike wrote: post #9

WalterBright wrote: post #4

I took and engineering and science program in college. The education was in learning how to learn, learning how to solve problems, and how to distinguish fact from fiction. It's served me well. To make a living, it is necessary to learn a skill that people are willing to pay for.

> The education was in learning how to learn, learning how to solve problems, and how to distinguish fact from fiction Sounds pretty close to a liberal arts education. That said, not everything is about a job or work. Sometimes (usually) education is itself a goal.

> Sounds pretty close to a liberal arts education

That's the plan, but it doesn't seem to work out too well.

> not everything is about a job or work

Yes, if you are independently wealthy. Need to pay back those student loans!

Re: What liberal arts education is for (2024)

#15

Post by alephnerd » Sat, Aug 01, 2026, 6:18 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #4

I took and engineering and science program in college. The education was in learning how to learn, learning how to solve problems, and how to distinguish fact from fiction. It's served me well. To make a living, it is necessary to learn a skill that people are willing to pay for.

That doesn't preclude minoring or double majoring - which is what plenty of my peers who were also STEM majors often did (as did I)

Concentrating on monetizable skills is critical, but most colleges give enough space for interdisciplinary electives.

Re: What liberal arts education is for (2024)

#16

Post by photios » Sat, Aug 01, 2026, 6:21 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #11

> The class turned out to be more or less “A Letter (singular) of Paul:” we spent the semester reading Paul’s letter to the Romans, at a rate of about 3 sentences per week. Per week! That's not a liberal education. That's religious brainwashing. It's the kind of thing madrassas and yeshivas do - obsessively school students on a very few texts said to be sacred. Liberal education was traditionally broad. There are cur…

St. Paul's writing has this effect on people. It's either a burst of love and joy or seething hatred. Never in the middle. :D

> There are curricula based on the Great Books.

List not including the greatest book of them all... What did they mean by this?

Re: What liberal arts education is for (2024)

#17

Post by aruss » Sat, Aug 01, 2026, 6:23 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #11

> The class turned out to be more or less “A Letter (singular) of Paul:” we spent the semester reading Paul’s letter to the Romans, at a rate of about 3 sentences per week. Per week! That's not a liberal education. That's religious brainwashing. It's the kind of thing madrassas and yeshivas do - obsessively school students on a very few texts said to be sacred. Liberal education was traditionally broad. There are cur…

This is one class to deeply understand one of the most politically impactful texts in history. What about that is religious brainwashing? Do you even know the professor’s religious beliefs? Because they’re not obvious to me simply from the course description.

I took a religious studies course in college amid a liberal arts math/CS major. I can say it was one of my favorite classes in college, primarily for exposing me to ways of thinking that differ from my own, and yet I left with my (lack of) religious beliefs intact.

Re: What liberal arts education is for (2024)

#18

Post by WalterBright » Sat, Aug 01, 2026, 6:28 AM UTC

alephnerd wrote: post #15

WalterBright wrote: post #4

I took and engineering and science program in college. The education was in learning how to learn, learning how to solve problems, and how to distinguish fact from fiction. It's served me well. To make a living, it is necessary to learn a skill that people are willing to pay for.

That doesn't preclude minoring or double majoring - which is what plenty of my peers who were also STEM majors often did (as did I) Concentrating on monetizable skills is critical, but most colleges give enough space for interdisciplinary electives.

At Caltech, the usual was to double major with one to make money, the other for fun. The fun one was usually Astronomy, where it was well known there were no prospects for employment.

In my case the problem was there were too many fascinating engineering classes to take. I tried to pick out ones that would be of maximum benefit to my chosen career.

Re: What liberal arts education is for (2024)

#19

Post by WalterBright » Sat, Aug 01, 2026, 6:38 AM UTC

mdp2021 wrote: post #13

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #8

Yet another dubious claim that "skills of close reading and critical questioning" are the products of a liberal arts education. Students can gain such things just fine in a STEM field if they care enough and aren't the sort who are just doing the bare minimum to get the sheepskin.

> Students can gain such things just fine in a STEM field As long as you do not claim that "living only on proteins or stones and without carbs or leaves would be a good idea".

Those with a liberal arts education do indeed look down on STEM educations as merely a trade.

What they miss is the joy of understanding how the world works. I remember many "aha!" moments like somebody turning on the lights in a dark cathedral.

Like when I found out how jet engines really worked, not the handwavy cartoons one usually sees. Or when suddenly all the pieces fit together and I knew how a computer worked. Or when Prof Gomez turned math from black+white to color when he taught me calculus.

Re: What liberal arts education is for (2024)

#20

Post by alephnerd » Sat, Aug 01, 2026, 6:41 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #18

alephnerd wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't preclude minoring or double majoring - which is what plenty of my peers who were also STEM majors often did (as did I) Concentrating on monetizable skills is critical, but most colleges give enough space for interdisciplinary electives.

At Caltech, the usual was to double major with one to make money, the other for fun. The fun one was usually Astronomy, where it was well known there were no prospects for employment. In my case the problem was there were too many fascinating engineering classes to take. I tried to pick out ones that would be of maximum benefit to my chosen career.

Tbf, Caltech is also a much more self selecting student base.

Plenty of my MIT friends explicitly chose MIT over Caltech because they wanted a technical education but also the freedom to deep dive in English or Political Science as well (Caltech has great faculty in the HSS, but class choice was unsurprisingly limited).

That said, based on your account age, I think you studied in the 1980s to early 2000s back when programs were much less interdisciplinary. It's much easier to double major with a STEM and humanities major from the 2010s to present versus before.