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A Surveillance Treaty in Disguise: Canada Signs UN Cybercrime Convention

michaelgeist.ca

41–50 of 181 posts

Re: A Surveillance Treaty in Disguise: Canada Signs UN Cybercrime Convention

#41
post #22
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Canadian user of HN it's really frustrating to see a rare post about a Canadian subject be immediately dominated by a thread about American politics. Twenty words into your post and you've pivoted to the US. What mechanism or discussion can we have to encourage the users to show some restraint on this?

Do you have any thoughts on the bill? One thing we can do is try to upvote the citizens of the country being discussed. Or calls to action -- who does someone who's Canadian call to complain about this? (Their MP I presume?) I'd also be curious, given you have a multiparty system and not our peculiar two party one, why you struggle so hard to get candidates from NDP elected who would probably not push such terrible l…

It’s a multiparty system that was recently in a minority configuration but through a fairly interesting series of floor crossings and by elections to fill open seats the Liberal party under PM Mark Carney has obtained a majority which more or less allows them complete dominance over the legislative process.

An explanation as to why the NDP fail to gain any substantial power could fill an entire book but imho the overarching reason comes down to the demographic distribution of Canada and dominance of the Bloq Quebecois has over Quebec preventing the establishment of any lasting NDP influence in such a densely populated part of the country.

As for the subject at hand, I wish it would be so easy as to just call an elected official, but as I said above, with the Liberal control of parliament for the remainder of their term and their high support in the polls there’s nothing that will Make them backtrack.

And this speaks to what Waterluvian mentioned in another thread. Too often with these kinds of surveillance laws the drive for them doesn’t seem to be originating by from the electorate, and it feels like this kind of stuff has an exogenous source and is meant for a whole different audience or player in the game.

Re: A Surveillance Treaty in Disguise: Canada Signs UN Cybercrime Convention

#42
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree this is the case, I think this is a consequence of low education for the general public and low quality of the public discourse. If the quality of those two goes up, then WYSIWYG politics will emerge as a preferred choice. I only wish I knew of possible ways for us to get there :(

Unfortunately, both low education for the general public and low quality of the public discourse exist by design. The only possible way to remedy this is to maximize your own ability to exert power, possibly by becoming massively rich, and then hope it doesn't corrupt you enough along the way such that you can still enact good in the end.

The more I learn, and the more versed I become with society, the harder and harder it becomes to see what is "good" and what is "bad".

The most confident I ever was that I was "obviously correct" was when I was 20.

Re: A Surveillance Treaty in Disguise: Canada Signs UN Cybercrime Convention

#43

It feels like there’s this weird layer to domestic and international politics where you do a lot of signalling to one audience while simultaneously winking at other audiences that you’re not actually serious. (I can never tell who is getting winked at…) I feel like WYSIWYG politics is what most of us want, but probably doesn’t actually work. The Ned Stark character that is righteous and right and quickly meets the he…

Isn’t it very ironic to post this under a pseudonym?

Which by definition contains some signalling that deviates from WYSIWYG.

Re: A Surveillance Treaty in Disguise: Canada Signs UN Cybercrime Convention

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>i would think a democrat would have been a better cosponsor Why? Where is any equivalent measures coming from the US left? It is because that’s how people identify as Democrats want them to behave? There seems to be a rift there.

Massie and Wyden are both anomalies in their respective parties. There’s not really any “privacy caucus” at a national level right now, to my dismay. There were more people willing to stand up for privacy after 9/11 during the “with us or against us” GWOT, which really says something.

And Massie was kicked out after the most money was spent in any house primary and Trump heavily campaigned for the puppet candidate.

It's a super Trump-loving district with mostly elderly turnout, kind of crazy they had Massie for so long, him being a good guy and smart and all.

Re: A Surveillance Treaty in Disguise: Canada Signs UN Cybercrime Convention

#45
The only way to have age verification on an international level, is to have treaties allowing for the sharing of information about citizens, digitally, in that context.

And this is that level of cooperation. And it has all the hallmarks of what comes next, identity verification. And this, is what this is for.

In order to prosecute anyone, you need to validate who did the crime. And that requires knowing who that person is. Not hearsay, not postulated, but validated "who this is". So you need to lock down anonymous access to the internet, in order to ensure you can easily and always prosecute such crimes.

And one of the issues right now, is that if someone in the UK does "bad thing" in Canada via the internet? It's doubly hard to track. So creating frameworks which will (on the backend) require some form of identity verification to work effectively, well... that tracks from where I sit and have seen in the last 2 years.

Frankly, from a government's perspective, this is no different than all the changes with KYC, for example 50 years ago the Government of Canada knew pretty much nothing about its citizenry. Certainly, it had no clue about bank account balances, transactions, investment holdings, a person's wealth and more. Now it knows enormous amounts of data, perhaps an arbitrary example is that your RRSP and TFSA(like American 501k) information, balances, and more are now yearly sent to the GoC. I believe also all information on trades made are, too, even in non-registered accounts. This absolutely wasn't the case, not to this degree, even a decade or two ago.

Some of these obligations are via ratified international treaties. The degree of surveillance, fiscally, is astonishing now. Americans know of this of course, after 9/11 they gave their government enormous data, and keep giving it, eg credit card transactions.

I remember when I was young, my parents arguing about having to get SIN cards (social insurance number). While it as introduced in the 60s, something happened which made it more of a requirement. Its only purpose at the time was for Revenue Canada to track info. Everyone argued about it, discussed it, was upset! It was the first time people needed "a number" to open certain bank accounts.

Yet we come from that, to this in really one generation's lifetime.

One of the problems is that, there is a massive, immense, enormous problem here right now, in terms of bots/foreign actors/asshats spreading immense disinformation for profit or state actor based goals. And with LLMs, it's going to get so much worse. People on HN at least are capable of some filtering, but the average Joe just sees video and 100% believes it is factual and true.

I wish I could see another path to locking out the asshattery, whilst keeping the internet anonymous. But I don't really. And unless a grass roots movement comes around, to ensure that every crime on the internet has a very high degree of success for prosecution? Then we'll be getting an identity managed internet.

I'm sure a lot of people will say "We can force companies to filter!", well, can you? For every forum out there? For torrents? For everything? And even if you think the "big boys" can be the main filter points, well, do you want a private company to decide what you post or not? And they'll need some way to ensure people don't just create a new account when banned! So they'll want ID too, if they're legislated to filter.

And if they're legislated to filter, can you fight decisions in court? Do you have the presumption on innocence? Do you have the right to face your accusers? A jury of your peers? With Google, Facebook, anyone these days, you get banned and it's nigh impossible to even find out why.

While there are exceptions, our governments are required to have criminal courts, and things prosecuted there.

I really don't want private, fiscally motivated companies to be the gatekeepers, if gatekeepers there must be.

Ah well. This is all a very unpleasant path.

Re: A Surveillance Treaty in Disguise: Canada Signs UN Cybercrime Convention

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thomas Massie introduced the best privacy bill I have seen. I know nothing about political strategy but i would think a democrat would have been a better cosponsor. Will it even get voted on if the house speaker doesn't want it? https://www.surveillanceaccountability.com/ >Warrant required Government must go before a judge to access your metadata, location, or financial records — just like searching your home. >No Da…

>i would think a democrat would have been a better cosponsor Why? Where is any equivalent measures coming from the US left? It is because that’s how people identify as Democrats want them to behave? There seems to be a rift there.

Objectively, the left has this very strong ideology of “education will fix everything, and until then we know what’s best for the masses”

This went too far with the whole woke thing, and resulted in 2 non-consecutive terms of trump, handing the right a litany of power they had no idea how to wield, and they hit every stupid branch falling down the failure tree.

Education isn’t the answer, dictating “I know what’s best” isn’t the answer, doge wasn’t the answer, starting random wars isn’t the answer.

Maybe by process of elimination we can find the answers. I am Hopeful that if the left gets a foothold again in the coming midterms they do not repeat their past mistakes.

Hopeful != optimistic. Lot of angry people out for blood.

Re: A Surveillance Treaty in Disguise: Canada Signs UN Cybercrime Convention

#47
post #22
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Canadian user of HN it's really frustrating to see a rare post about a Canadian subject be immediately dominated by a thread about American politics. Twenty words into your post and you've pivoted to the US. What mechanism or discussion can we have to encourage the users to show some restraint on this?

Do you have any thoughts on the bill? One thing we can do is try to upvote the citizens of the country being discussed. Or calls to action -- who does someone who's Canadian call to complain about this? (Their MP I presume?) I'd also be curious, given you have a multiparty system and not our peculiar two party one, why you struggle so hard to get candidates from NDP elected who would probably not push such terrible l…

>given you have a multiparty system [... why you struggle so hard to...

Multiparty yes, but also first-past-the-post, which favours 2 dominant parties.

Re: A Surveillance Treaty in Disguise: Canada Signs UN Cybercrime Convention

#48

When are we going to see substantive legislation advancing digital rights instead of chipping away at them? For the US, we need a new bill of rights, a bill of digital rights that constitutionally protects right of repair, right to root our own devices, right to be free from dragnet surveillance, right to general purpose computing, and the right to access speech without government-mandated age or identity checks. Wit…

Thomas Massie introduced the best privacy bill I have seen. I know nothing about political strategy but i would think a democrat would have been a better cosponsor. Will it even get voted on if the house speaker doesn't want it? https://www.surveillanceaccountability.com/ >Warrant required Government must go before a judge to access your metadata, location, or financial records — just like searching your home. >No Da…

It's dumb that private buyers can buy data profiles but the government can not. It leaves a million loop-holes for government to backdoor a suspects data.

It's also going to piss off almost all of society if their data cannot be monetized, because pretty much all notable services will go from free to paid overnight.

Perhaps something like a mandatory "Do not track" option for all data supported services, where you can "buyout" your data (at market rate) to prevent it from being sold.

Re: A Surveillance Treaty in Disguise: Canada Signs UN Cybercrime Convention

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Massie and Wyden are both anomalies in their respective parties. There’s not really any “privacy caucus” at a national level right now, to my dismay. There were more people willing to stand up for privacy after 9/11 during the “with us or against us” GWOT, which really says something.

And Massie was kicked out after the most money was spent in any house primary and Trump heavily campaigned for the puppet candidate. It's a super Trump-loving district with mostly elderly turnout, kind of crazy they had Massie for so long, him being a good guy and smart and all.

The same way we dont want smart people on juries, smart people in government is haram. especially people with technical educations who care about privacy. very haram!

Re: A Surveillance Treaty in Disguise: Canada Signs UN Cybercrime Convention

#50
post #41
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any thoughts on the bill? One thing we can do is try to upvote the citizens of the country being discussed. Or calls to action -- who does someone who's Canadian call to complain about this? (Their MP I presume?) I'd also be curious, given you have a multiparty system and not our peculiar two party one, why you struggle so hard to get candidates from NDP elected who would probably not push such terrible l…

It’s a multiparty system that was recently in a minority configuration but through a fairly interesting series of floor crossings and by elections to fill open seats the Liberal party under PM Mark Carney has obtained a majority which more or less allows them complete dominance over the legislative process. An explanation as to why the NDP fail to gain any substantial power could fill an entire book but imho the over…

>dominance of the Bloq Quebecois has over Quebec

It's "Bloc". The NDP did well in Québec not long ago, when they had a candidate that the electorate liked.

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