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The Absurdity of Albert Camus

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Re: The Absurdity of Albert Camus

#71

Post by jordanpg »

Before reading The Stranger, I was headlong into the then-popular "New Atheism" movement, which came with a certain air of superiority of brainpower over the naive masses. But reading The Stranger had a profound impact on me, even before I knew anything more formal about existentialist philosophy.

It was an awakening: I began to understand that the problem with the world isn't that everyone needs to learn more physics and think more like me. The problem is that none of this stuff -- life -- really means anything; that's a hard pill for lots of people to swallow (understandably); and our stupid little lives are just 80 years or so of farting around and trying to forget about what is obvious (h/t to KV).

The book ultimately softened my overly critical views about religion and superstition and helped me mature into someone much more sympathetic to the various weird things that people think and do.

Re: The Absurdity of Albert Camus

#72

Post by mkovach »

jordanpg wrote: post #71

Before reading The Stranger , I was headlong into the then-popular "New Atheism" movement, which came with a certain air of superiority of brainpower over the naive masses. But reading The Stranger had a profound impact on me, even before I knew anything more formal about existentialist philosophy. It was an awakening: I began to understand that the problem with the world isn't that everyone needs to learn more physi…

[flagged]

Re: The Absurdity of Albert Camus

#73

Post by tough »

estearum wrote: post #69
halperter wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh, haven't looked at it that way. I'm just not sure about the leap from a lack of craving allows us to truly experience the world. As a general rule, I think humans want more. We usually aren't satisfied with "okay enough" and is what led us to do basically everything we have done. Nobody does something if they don't have a motivation to do it. I think that desire is so fundamental to life that to lead life without…

You can probably fairly trivially prove their claim to yourself with 1-2 months of 10-20min daily of meditation. There's a reason it's often referred to as "waking up." The essential claim is a bit broader than what it seems like you're picking up. It's not craving = blinding. Or rather that's the most extreme end of the spectrum. It's that we are effectively going through life in a dreamlike state. We are so preoccu…

Thanks for your explanations, It some times feels everyone's reality is mostly their POV from what's going on on their brain.

Two person on the same exact physical circumstances can experience the same events in highly different meanings and the "World" remains the same shared constant, but how you "Percieve" such events in the world ain't.

or something like that.

Re: The Absurdity of Albert Camus

#74

Post by mkovach »

nchmy wrote: post #61
georgemcbay wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s been a while, but I recall finding The Plague more compelling than The Stranger. > While I agree with Camus’s philosophical points about the absurdity of existence and the indifference of the universe, within the scope of our tiny little lives there is morality and meaning. I'm pretty sure later-life (relatively, since he died pretty young) Camus would agree with you. The way I view it, The Stranger was him di…

Yes, this is the mistake almost everyone makes - stopping at "life is absurd!". The rebel and the plague show how to do something meaningful in spite of that. I've always pointed the Absurdists to his nobel prize speech as a quick way of showing them that they don't have the slightest idea of what he was talking about. The cognitive dissonance is generally too great, and the leave in a huff. https://www.nobelprize.or…

I agree. Camus' work was a larger project. One he sadly never finished.

His works (essays, short stories, plays, etc.) build on one another, gradually unfolding an argument: first confronting the absurd, then asking how one should respond to it, and later exploring what it means to live and act in spite of it.

Re: The Absurdity of Albert Camus

#75

Post by pandoro »

If you are not familiar with Camus' work, I highly recommend reading the essay collection Nuptials (Nuptials at Tipasa, The Wind at Djémila, Summer in Algiers and The Desert). It was written in 1936, when Camus was in his early twenties; several years before he articulated his "philosophie de l'absurde" in The Myth of Sisyphus and The Stranger.

Camus himself described Noces as belonging to a pre-absurdist "pagan" phase. It describes, in beautifully poetic french, the intense, sensual love of physical existence and the here-and-now that gives the absurd its stakes.

A quote from Nuptials at Tipasa:

In the spring, Tipasa is inhabited by gods and the gods speak in the sun and the scent of absinthe leaves, in the silver armor of the sea, in the raw blue sky, the flower-covered ruins, and the great bubbles of light among the heaps of stone. At certain hours of the day the countryside is black with sunlight. The eyes try in vain to perceive anything but drops of light and colors trembling on the lashes.

[...]

I love this life with abandon and wish to speak of it boldly: it makes me proud of my human condition. Yet people have often told me: there’s nothing to be proud of. Yes, there is: this sun, this sea, my heart leaping with youth, the salt taste of my body and this vast landscape in which tenderness and glory merge in blue and yellow. It is to conquer this that I need my strength and my resources. Everything here leaves me intact, I surrender nothing of myself, and don no mask: learning patiently and arduously how to live is enough for me, well worth all their arts of living.

Re: The Absurdity of Albert Camus

#76

Post by sebmellen »

pandoro wrote: post #75

If you are not familiar with Camus' work, I highly recommend reading the essay collection Nuptials ( Nuptials at Tipasa , The Wind at Djémila , Summer in Algiers and The Desert ). It was written in 1936, when Camus was in his early twenties; several years before he articulated his "philosophie de l'absurde" in The Myth of Sisyphus and The Stranger. Camus himself described Noces as belonging to a pre-absurdist "pagan"…

This is truly some of the most beautiful writing I’ve ever encountered. Thank you for posting it.

Re: The Absurdity of Albert Camus

#77

Post by otekengineering »

mkovach wrote: post #65
otekengineering wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One must imagine Sisyphus happy Notice that Camus doesn't say HOW to imagine Sisyphus happy. How do you? I imagine that he's happy because he takes pride in the quality of his work pushing the stone.

> Notice that Camus doesn't say HOW to imagine Sisyphus happy. How do you? The gods controlled the ascent, but they forgot to regulate the walk back down. In those brief, unburdened minutes descending the slope, Sisyphus is completely outside their authority. You can imagine him however you like, laughing at the absurdity of it, studying the mountain, or simply enjoying the breeze. It almost doesn't matter. The walk…

Yeah, it's a question with a personal answer, not an absolute answer. My answer works for me, for now, and I enjoy learning what answers work for other people.

I wonder if Camus had his own answer to that question. Could Camus imagine Sisyphus happy?

I don't think rebellion or ownership are enough. Rebellion is meaningless when you're alone with nothing to rebel against, and ownership is not inherently positive.

Gods not regulating the decent is an interesting take. Can one learn to smile while falling?

Re: The Absurdity of Albert Camus

#78

Post by otekengineering »

tremon wrote: post #60
otekengineering wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One must imagine Sisyphus happy Notice that Camus doesn't say HOW to imagine Sisyphus happy. How do you? I imagine that he's happy because he takes pride in the quality of his work pushing the stone.

> Camus doesn't say HOW to imagine Sisyphus happy Huh? Do you mean that in a literal sense, that Camus doesn't give instructions on how imagination works? To me, the quote certainly does explain how Sisyphus could be happy: His fate belongs to him. His rock is his thing [..] The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart

If you were in Sisyphus' shoes, could you be happy under those terms?

Struggle alone doesn't do it for me personally, but taking pride in how well I struggle does.

Re: The Absurdity of Albert Camus

#79

Post by pulkitsh1234 »

pandoro wrote: post #75

If you are not familiar with Camus' work, I highly recommend reading the essay collection Nuptials ( Nuptials at Tipasa , The Wind at Djémila , Summer in Algiers and The Desert ). It was written in 1936, when Camus was in his early twenties; several years before he articulated his "philosophie de l'absurde" in The Myth of Sisyphus and The Stranger. Camus himself described Noces as belonging to a pre-absurdist "pagan"…

>At certain hours of the day the countryside is black with sunlight.

What does this mean ? Why "black" ?

Re: The Absurdity of Albert Camus

#80

Post by ignoramous »

firasd wrote: post #16

His Sisyphus essay is famous for its closing line but I find it interesting how for several pages it closes with a thump, thump, thump and metaphor fusion (the essay is ending, the rock is rolling, the gods are watching, the choice is being made...) Even the second-last line is underrated: "There is no fate that can not be surmounted by scorn. [...] His fate belongs to him. His rock is his thing. [...] The absurd man…

> One must imagine Sisyphus happy

I have my disagreements with Absurdism, but still, Gavin Aung Than's comic on Bill Watterson's "A Cartoonist's Advice" adds to perspective on what it might mean to forever push boulder up hill & yet manifest happiness: https://www.zenpencils.com/comic/128-bill-watterson-a-cartoo... / https://archive.vn/a34Bx

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