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Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

android-developers.googleblog.com

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Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well... Wikipedia has content that some would consider offensive or unsuitable for children. I'm not in favor of limiting any access to Wikipedia, but I'd consider it a certainty that the day would come when Wikipedia had to decide whether to implement age restrictions or try to police content. I believe that event would change it's governance and social structure in a negative way and significantly degrade it as a p…

Likewise, some old history documentaries have gore or nudity. I think our current content ratings systems are not as obtuse as "nipple? R rating". >I believe that event would change it's governance and social structure in a negative way and significantly degrade it as a public resource. This can and has already been doing even without age verification. We're way beyond government survellaince in many countries.

In the US, our content rating systems are absolutely as obtuse as "Nipple? R"

You traditionally can say one "Fuck" in a PG-13 movie, which will be about brutally displayed murder and violence and how awesome vigilante justice is. But if you have even a couple frames of a single (female, but like, that's its own insane can of worms) nipple, you cannot get lower than an R rating.

This is all well publicized, despite there not being public standards for the process, and the specific wording of the PG-13 advisory is "Some content may be unsuitable for children under 13", which is weird language to describe what actually happens in practice.

This is because the rating system is a weird club of "Parents of children in school" in los angeles. It's about as corruptible and sketchy as a system can get.

The ESRB is similar. Shooting lots of people? Well there's no blood so that can be for everyone. Oh, now you added some red particle effects? Sorry, now it's Mature.

GTA 3 had an M rating, but a person found that if you hacked the game and changed the code you could play a sex minigame. That caused the game to have an Adults Only rating. Even though it's not something you could do, see, or activate in game at all. And also the game already had functionality to have sex with a hooker and then murder them to get your money back.

It exists because the dumbest parents went apeshit over yet another fake controversy (Oh my god, D&D has demons!!!. OH MY GOD. This game about saving teenage girls from creatures in a crazy amount of costume who harm them with a 2 foot long grabby arm because the developers wanted to avoid unfortunate implications is JUST TOO SEXY FOR LITTLE TIMMY and we need to make congress bitch and moan about it for an entire week and ban anything that could ever be entertainment)

They are purposely arbitrary because their purpose is to make the crazy people who write letters to the FTC to arrest someone for daring to have a low cut shirt go the hell away. Those people have absurd and arbitrary triggers.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#362
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>which is expensive The rumored Motorola devices are even more expensive. It's the signature and some foldables, all in the 1000+ MSRP range. At least with pixels you can get the a series for as little as 400 on sale.

If you buy one of the Motorola Grapheneos phones, you're gonna be marked. You will stand out in the crowd. It has happened before and will happen more frequently as the world becomes more authoritarian.

Oh but “the government already knows everything” as all the other privacy doomers like to say. “They” can probably already predict what phone you’re going to buy and what you’re going to eat for lunch, right? So why worry about this?

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t that… life? Even literal regulated electricity utilities aren’t expected to provide service to every last marginal customer. For example, a poor old grandma missing many electricity bill payments usually will see leniency if she is polite, the utility eventually won’t try to collect cash anymore and instead put a lien on the home while continuing to provide service. But if the billing department receives multip…

I really hope our freedom's aren't relinquished on a platform as fortified as "It is what it is".

This doesn’t make sense?

How does “freedom” relate to an electrical utility deciding whether to cut service?

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#364
Who hasn't handed their phone to their kid at some point? This is a bad idea.

It would be far better if the user could set the age dynamically, as part of a capabilities set, and the browser could forward that data.

Then a person could hand over their phone to a child or a border agent in safety.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#365
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The commercial value of a ten year old smartphone in a wealthy country is approximately $0. It's probably not terribly hard for a determined child who goes to school and has friends to obtain one.

And I bet I'd struggle to install almost all modern popular apps on a 10 year old phone. No Youtube, no Roblox, etc. They simply wouldn't update nor connect. That's one problem solved by the fact that phones operate on a deprecation model, as opposed to Windows OS.

I'm writing this on a seven year old phone (an S10e), running a community ROM with A15, and I have no issues at all in installing any apps. This device is my daily driver (it has a headphone jack and SD card support, and a relatively easily replaceable battery, and is small and light - so it's better than most modern flagships for my needs). A pixel would have much better community ROM support still. These old flagship phones are still plenty powerful for anything other than (useless) on device AI or intense 3D gaming.

There is only a "depreciation" model if you don't unlock your bootloader - and even then, a seven year support cycle makes it very easy to obtain cheap, old, fully supported phones, if that's your jam.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#366
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is quite simple. You just don't verify it. The point isn’t to verify the age but to set the age on the device itself. If the parents set the age on the cell phone or computer, that setting is then used as the basis. The operating systems can be configured so that only the device administrator can change the age. Systemd already has a field for storing the age, which programs can read. If the child doesn’t…

Are you a parent? I have personally used the parental controls on Android, iOS and ChromeOS and to be honest they are terrible. Issues with syncing changes, the terrible UX for parental access control (iOS...), issues around audit/access logs, issues around prompting the parent for access. I am honestly shocked that Apple known for its polished experience hasn't been forced by angry parents. My daughter's school actu…

Why does your daughter have a Chromebook in the first place?

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concern isn't that an authoritarian government locks you out of some age-restricted sites, it's that it locks you out of them all.

Well, sure. But that doesn't answer my original question - which 3rd party provider do you trust more with your own data more than the government[which in most cases already has this data]

Data ownership is just one area of concern. Controlling our access to the internet is another.

If age verification was an open standard, we could hope for competition so that we could jump ship from a bad actor. If one blocks our access, we would have alternatives. In theory.

Not so with a centralized government-mandated service.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#368

I'm fundamentally opposed to age verification because it usually leads to mandatory account creation no matter how privacy friendly the age verification process itself may be. It's already extremely annoying that, for example, on YouTube, you can no longer watch many videos without an account. Furthermore, the whole thing also reinforces monopolies. Once you've verified your age on one platform, the barrier to switch…

> The only acceptable solution would be for apps and websites to simply include a recommended age. Allowing parents to configure their children’s devices to block services that require users to be older than the specified age or that do not provide an age rating. That just entertains the false justification for what is ultimately about surveillance and control. There are privacy preserving alternatives to accounts an…

What might those be? Everything I've seen is ineffective or can be compromised. I think letting parents parent is probably the best option, but will require better/easier/free tools and education to help lock down different categories of harm.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect, this just sounds like justification for lazy parenting. We're 2 generations into the digital era: parents of such an era should have enough digital literacy to make sure their kids do not get in danger. Let's use another analog: Kids want sweets and parents either agree to buy that and no longer bother with their diet, or saves money to go to the candy store. Yet if a kid gets too unhealthy we (…

It's okay that it doesn't match your experience but it's also a case that you shouldn't extrapolate your expectations and experience onto others. There's plenty of overworked, stressed or ignorant parents who really wish they could care or they don't at all. "should have enough digital literacy" doesn't survive reality check - reportedly 12-26% adults in the UK (% depending on the country) is reported to have very po…

Maybe it's a cultural issue here, but my country is very resistant to the government coming in to course correct how people live their lives. Many times to its detriment (diet, guns, social media), but the boon of this is that it makes it really hard for anyone to incorporate a surveillance state. "Those who sacrifice freedom for security..." And all that.

The sad fact is many kids are already falling under the cracks. Failing to mind their kids internet usage is just one way, and having companies sneak in to try and fix this patch won't suddenly lead to success.

The needle won't be moved in terms of progress, but privacy will take a near fatal blow. I fail to see why we should accept such measures when this is just yet another bald face power grab by greedy corporations. I might have been more accommodating if this was in good faith, but we've been past the BOTD for at least 7 years now.

Re: Google will expand age checks on Android worldwide till the end of the year

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Force a PEGI-like system for every apps please. It would be awesome.

The App/Play stores already basically have that, you can't submit apps without age ratings. One spot where it's a bit weird is for utility apps that don't have any "mature" content but that obviously isn't intended for kids, so e.g. your tax prep app gets rated as "Ages 4+".

Is exposure to a tax app going to cause harm to a 5yo? This doesn't seem like a real problem.
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