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Why is everyone trying to build a solid-state battery?

construction-physics.com

11–20 of 331 posts

Re: Why is everyone trying to build a solid-state battery?

#11
post #6

We need way more research on batteries. People cant ingine what is possible if we make battery 10x energy dense.

The past 20 years have made lithium ion 2-3x more dense, both because of some chemistry changes and because of better pack level design.

And it's still improving at about 5% per year.

Re: Why is everyone trying to build a solid-state battery?

#12
post #6

We need way more research on batteries. People cant ingine what is possible if we make battery 10x energy dense.

Agreed, but I think people can imagine and companies are very motivated: powertools, phones, laptops, watches, backup UPS, cars, hospital equipment... there's high demand for durable, long-lasting batteries. I think the research is there, it's just complex chemistry. We'll get there. Impressive to see the progress in EV batteries and they've actually turned out to be more durable than first feared.

Re: Why is everyone trying to build a solid-state battery?

#13
post #9

are dendrites why so many people are now burning down their apartment/complex charging their scooters is LiFePo4 immune to dendrite shorts? Or do they happen just don't burn?

There are a number of reasons why lithium batteries may catastrophically fail and catch fire. Dendrite shorts is one, another reason is poor alignment of the layers during assembly, allowing for eventual shifting of layers leading to internal shorting. Another is conductive or sharp debris getting into the battery during manufacturing, and after a while the anode/cathode separator getting pierced by the debris. Lots of reasons!

Re: Why is everyone trying to build a solid-state battery?

#14
post #6

We need way more research on batteries. People cant ingine what is possible if we make battery 10x energy dense.

I can - it’s called a bomb. Some of the problems with batteries are heat dissipation (one of those problems that superconductors would mostly solve), fire safety, and end of life disposal. Higher energy density makes it even worse.

A good place to start would be a BMS on individual cells that monitors them for general degradation, unexpected discharge, unexpected temperature changes, and can remove a failing cell from the array.

Re: Why is everyone trying to build a solid-state battery?

#16
post #6

We need way more research on batteries. People cant ingine what is possible if we make battery 10x energy dense.

The past 20 years have made lithium ion 2-3x more dense, both because of some chemistry changes and because of better pack level design. And it's still improving at about 5% per year.

Tesla has been around for nearly 20 years. Model S (12 years) has gained 17% of range due to chemistry (rest is system efficiency and simply bigger battery).

Re: Why is everyone trying to build a solid-state battery?

#17
post #6

We need way more research on batteries. People cant ingine what is possible if we make battery 10x energy dense.

I think people can imagine lighter cars and laptops and things. Is there something bizarre that’s unlocked like battery powered space launches or something?

Re: Why is everyone trying to build a solid-state battery?

#18
The article gives the technical reasons that answer the headline question (e.g. potential for better energy density)

I am surprised they didn't point out the literal "killer app" - military drones. Energy density is king for any airborne power source. And dendrite growth during charge/discharge cycling isn't as big a deal for that application (how many times would you need to charge a disposable weapon?)

Re: Why is everyone trying to build a solid-state battery?

#19
post #6

We need way more research on batteries. People cant ingine what is possible if we make battery 10x energy dense.

I don't think 10x density is possible without getting into nuclear, at least not with the chemistries we know of today, everything at a certain point becomes an explosive. Speaking of nuclear, getting tons of the material that powers mars rovers and putting them in every home would generate enough power for decades... At the cost of being able to build a nuclear bomb in a garage.

The next revolution will be small scale generation. Fuel cells, extremely efficient cheap solar, even smaller modular reactors, etc.

I live in western Pennsylvania and have both natural gas and electric service, a roof and 1/3 acre of land to utilize. I would love to get rid of at least one of my utility bills and I’m becoming more interested in decoupling from the electric grid than natural gas service. I dream of a future where competition comes to monopoly utilities by way of direct competition with each other as there is a not so far off future where I can utilize solar, batteries and a natural gas fuel cell to cut ties with my Electric Utility. If that kind of competition can exist then the game is on for those utilities to start fighting for customers.

Re: Why is everyone trying to build a solid-state battery?

#20
post #4

Tangential to the main article point but… The energy density scatter plot is physically correct but misleading and everyone makes this mistake. From an engineering point of view you have to use work delivered at the end of the drive train not fuel raw energy content. When you do that lithium ion batteries compare more favorably to liquid fuels. That’s because the conversion path is more than 90% efficient. For ICE en…

Yes, electricity should be the only abstraction layer to deliver energy to end user. We can extract a lot more energy from fossil fuels in large scale plants and also continuously switch out dirtier fuels with clean energy.

For example, no need to build natural gas infrastructure to every home. Use induction stoves (or electric coil -- already 67% of homes). Heat pump water heater instead of gas. And heat pump for HVAC.

If all energy bills are consolidated as electricity (instead of gas, natural gas and electricity), most people would install solar on their rooftops, buy EVs, and save ~$1000/month on energy bills.

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