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EU now fears US interference in European elections

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Re: EU now fears US interference in European elections

#51

Post by bestouff »

ReptileMan wrote: post #46
bestouff wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course there are. But how many people were brainwashed by Fox News in the US, various tabloids in the UK, the Bolloré media empire in France, etc. ? My guess is it's there huge majority of them. Like in any part of the world, take some unhappy people (mostly poor but not only), you have a very fertile ground for your readymade enemy stories.

Just last week in Europe we had - Islamist ramming a vehicle in pride parade in Berlin and Islamist stabbing in France - in which three women were seriously hurt. Do you claim that those didn't happen, were exaggerated or invented out of thin air from the media to brainwash the hoi polloi?

Those hateful islamists are the same easily influenced poor sods from the other side of the sea, converted by other kinds of right-wing opportunists

Re: EU now fears US interference in European elections

#52

Post by davidguetta »

benrutter wrote: post #5

As a UK citizen, it's interesting to think back to Barack Obama's attempt to convince the country not to vote for Brexit (saying the UK would "go to the back of the line" for future trade deal negotiations). I think the real difference now, isn't so much that the US is applying more pressure on european politics, but that it's politics is so much further away from most european countries than even five years ago. The…

"good interference" vs "bad interference"

this is a ludicrous argument in general. having people, even in power, give their opinion like musk or obama is not "interference"

stop trying censoring opinions you don't like.

if it's through funding or other way of intereferece like ngo, just ban it yes

Re: EU now fears US interference in European elections

#53

Post by flohofwoe »

stymaar wrote: post #50
flohofwoe wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western Europe was much more integrated with the US during the Cold War than it was at any time after 1990 (just as Eastern Europe was thightly integrated with the USSR), and that process of disentanglement with the US has accelerated dramatically once the US decided to start the process of turning itself into a fascist autocracy (its quite similar with Eastern Europe disentangling from the post-USSR actually, just t…

> Western Europe was much more integrated with the US during the Cold War than it was at any time after 1990 Not quite. For instance no European countries got involved in Vietnam like they did in Iraq (twice) and Afghanistan, and France had left Nato integrated command in the 60s, only to join again in 2009.

I suspect that this was less about helping the US, but rather about gathering at least a bit of battlefield experience for the various European armies that took part, since at that time the thought was that the Cold War armies prepared for a type of warfare that would never happen again after the Cold War was "won" (and thus also the massive demilitarization of the 1990s).

Also quite famously, Germany gave the middle finger to the US when it wanted to pull allies into 3rd Gulf War with that made up Iraqi WMD claim (and we also weren't partaking in the 2nd Gulf War before - apparently we paid $10 billion in financial support and some non-combat roles).

But yeah, Afghanistan was a pointless endeavour all around, and we shouldn't have joined there either.

Re: EU now fears US interference in European elections

#54

Post by locknitpicker »

mlrtime wrote: post #39
bestouff wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are driven by conservative media explaining to them the enemy is the other (brown, or trans, or plain woman) instead of the ruling class.

You can't imagine any situation where the people are seeing this for themselves? It must be that they're brainwashed by conservative media?

> You can't imagine any situation where the people are seeing this for themselves?

I am not sure you understand how this works. If you are bombarded with a barrage of fear-mongering content then overtime you are conditioned to interpret even very mundane and innocuous events as being danger signals. Such as LGBT individuals being a threat when going to the toilet or the mere existence of immigrants from specific parts of the world being a threat to your neighborhood's pets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right_pipeline

> It must be that they're brainwashed by conservative media?

It amazes me how you somehow believe in imaginary threats posed by, say, the presence of minorities, but yet you fail to understand that yes there is indeed a massive propaganda effort to radicalize you and people like you.

And this threat doesn't necessarily come from "conservative" media. For decades you have state actors deeply invested in destabilizing your society and causing civil unrest to the point they overtly state their intentions and strategy in the open. Furthermore, these same state actors are also directly engaged in subversive campaigns such as fueling mass migration flows in the Mediterranean

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35706238

But oddly enough that doesn't register as a concern.

Re: EU now fears US interference in European elections

#55

Post by locknitpicker »

ReptileMan wrote: post #46
bestouff wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course there are. But how many people were brainwashed by Fox News in the US, various tabloids in the UK, the Bolloré media empire in France, etc. ? My guess is it's there huge majority of them. Like in any part of the world, take some unhappy people (mostly poor but not only), you have a very fertile ground for your readymade enemy stories.

Just last week in Europe we had - Islamist ramming a vehicle in pride parade in Berlin and Islamist stabbing in France - in which three women were seriously hurt. Do you claim that those didn't happen, were exaggerated or invented out of thin air from the media to brainwash the hoi polloi?

> Just last week in Europe we had - Islamist ramming a vehicle in pride parade in Berlin and Islamist stabbing in France - in which three women were seriously hurt.

What's really interesting regarding this massive disinformation and subversion propaganda campaign targeting migrants and minorities is that the same state actors dump industrial levels of anti-LGBT propaganda in their anti-minority barrage and then when you are faced with a radicalized individual succumbing to that propaganda, all you are capable of seeing is yet again how these minorities are the problem.

While barely even noticing how you are being played.

It's also funny how, even when both attacker and victims are minorities, these events are always spun as how minorities were the attackers. Perhaps that alone should make you pause.

Re: EU now fears US interference in European elections

#57

Post by mlrtime »

locknitpicker wrote: post #54
mlrtime wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't imagine any situation where the people are seeing this for themselves? It must be that they're brainwashed by conservative media?

> You can't imagine any situation where the people are seeing this for themselves? I am not sure you understand how this works. If you are bombarded with a barrage of fear-mongering content then overtime you are conditioned to interpret even very mundane and innocuous events as being danger signals. Such as LGBT individuals being a threat when going to the toilet or the mere existence of immigrants from specific part…

[flagged]

Re: EU now fears US interference in European elections

#58

Post by stranded22 »

benrutter wrote: post #5

As a UK citizen, it's interesting to think back to Barack Obama's attempt to convince the country not to vote for Brexit (saying the UK would "go to the back of the line" for future trade deal negotiations). I think the real difference now, isn't so much that the US is applying more pressure on european politics, but that it's politics is so much further away from most european countries than even five years ago. The…

Was it to convince though? He stated a fact.

And no, the real difference now is that the USA oligarchs are activity trying to get far right parties in power.

Re: EU now fears US interference in European elections

#59

Post by stranded22 »

davidguetta wrote: post #52
benrutter wrote: post #5

As a UK citizen, it's interesting to think back to Barack Obama's attempt to convince the country not to vote for Brexit (saying the UK would "go to the back of the line" for future trade deal negotiations). I think the real difference now, isn't so much that the US is applying more pressure on european politics, but that it's politics is so much further away from most european countries than even five years ago. The…

"good interference" vs "bad interference" this is a ludicrous argument in general. having people, even in power, give their opinion like musk or obama is not "interference" stop trying censoring opinions you don't like. if it's through funding or other way of intereferece like ngo, just ban it yes

Musk ACTIVELY attacks through social media the governments in power and actively supports far right parties (through both appearances and money).

That’s a hell of a difference to ‘you’ll be at the back of the queue’ - which was a stated fact.

Re: EU now fears US interference in European elections

#60

Post by AlexeyBelov »

mlrtime wrote: post #57
locknitpicker wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't imagine any situation where the people are seeing this for themselves? I am not sure you understand how this works. If you are bombarded with a barrage of fear-mongering content then overtime you are conditioned to interpret even very mundane and innocuous events as being danger signals. Such as LGBT individuals being a threat when going to the toilet or the mere existence of immigrants from specific part…

[flagged]

No counterarguments at all.
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