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Apple's hostile App Store rating system

lapcatsoftware.com

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Re: Apple's hostile App Store rating system

#71

Post by ezfe »

spacedcowboy wrote: post #69
ezfe wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The API limits how frequently (3/year) *and* can be fully blocked by any user for all apps. They do get banned, effectively.

And there is nothing to stop a developer putting up their own nag screen as many times as they like, only pushing through to the real one when they get a good response... And they do.

If the OP did that then they deserve a 1 star rating. If they used Apple's system then they deserve a rating that doesn't deduct for the popup (and evidence seems to show that's what happens)

Re: Apple's hostile App Store rating system

#72

Post by ceejayoz »

lapcat wrote: post #65
ceejayoz wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The advantage of an email, though, is that it doesn't interrupt your workflow while you're using the software. So put a "hey, a rating really helps" somewhere in the app that doesn't interrupt? The bottom of the dashboard. Top of settings. A banner that shows up after a while. Let me permanently say no; none of the passive-aggressive "maybe later" shit.

> Top of settings. A banner that shows up after a while. Let me permanently say no; none of the passive-aggressive "maybe later" shit. This is precisely what my app does. It does not interrupt. You haven't used my app. You were only speculating based on one terse screenshotted review, but your speculation is inaccurate.

All we have to go on is what you provided in the post. It might benefit from a "see how gentle I was with it?" screenshot being included.

You'll never have everyone be happy with you. Someone will always leave a one star review eventually.

Re: Apple's hostile App Store rating system

#74

Post by orev »

In these (and I think many cases), the one star is being used to get the developer’s attention more than anything else.

I, and I think most people, think of most apps as being published by a company that’s actively engaged in enshitifying the app to squeeze as much profit as possible, and the company really couldn’t care less about what’s said in a four star review with some minor complaint. However, a one star review is going to affect the App Store rankings and will be reported to Senior Management (who are typically the ones pushing all the nags and annoyances). A one star review is the only way to get their attention and say: you’ve gone too far with this and customers aren’t happy.

Re: Apple's hostile App Store rating system

#75

Post by spacedcowboy »

lapcat wrote: post #57
spacedcowboy wrote: post #2

Just because “everyone does it” doesn’t mean you get a pass to do it too. Nagging the user to “rate my app” is pure self-interest at the expense of user-experience. I rate any app that nags (ie: more than thrice) me to rate it too. OTOH if I genuinely like some software I’m happy to rate it highly. Bottom line: It’s not my job to help sell your software - that’s your job. As for trying to get Apple in on the “screw w…

> As for trying to get Apple in on the “screw what the user wants to do, there’s STARVING INDY DEVELOPRS that need ratings!”, I don’t think I’ve come across anything so self-serving recently.. Wow. I think you misunderstood the post. I would like to abolish the entire crowdsourced rating and review system. I don't want to request ratings at all. However, if Apple insists on having crowdsourced ratings and reviews in…

I think I trust crowdsourced reviews more than I trust a developer who openly says “Developers could write or buy fake reviews, but in volume that would become quite costly”

Not “that would be ethically abhorrent”, or even “that would be wrong”, instead “if we did this it would cost me a lot of money to fraudulently boost my ratings”.

What ? I think I was being generous with “self-serving”, I’ve sold software for a living before, and my thought processes never went there. Never. I think you’ve persuaded me never to buy your software.

Re: Apple's hostile App Store rating system

#76

Post by lapcat »

spacedcowboy wrote: post #75
lapcat wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As for trying to get Apple in on the “screw what the user wants to do, there’s STARVING INDY DEVELOPRS that need ratings!”, I don’t think I’ve come across anything so self-serving recently.. Wow. I think you misunderstood the post. I would like to abolish the entire crowdsourced rating and review system. I don't want to request ratings at all. However, if Apple insists on having crowdsourced ratings and reviews in…

I think I trust crowdsourced reviews more than I trust a developer who openly says “Developers could write or buy fake reviews, but in volume that would become quite costly” Not “that would be ethically abhorrent”, or even “that would be wrong”, instead “if we did this it would cost me a lot of money to fraudulently boost my ratings”. What ? I think I was being generous with “self-serving”, I’ve sold software for a l…

> Not “that would be ethically abhorrent”, or even “that would be wrong”, instead “if we did this it would cost me a lot of money to fraudulently boost my ratings”.

Of course I think it's wrong and ethically abhorrent. Sigh.

In the very same paragraph I use the phrase "unscrupulous App Store developers" when referring to purchasing fake reviews.

I said "Developers could", referring impersonally to developers, but you rephrased it using the words "we" and "me", words that I did not use. You're insisting on assuming the worst of me, for no apparent reason.

My point there was directed more toward readers of App Store reviews. That is, reviews of upfront paid apps, especially higher price upfront paid apps, are less likely to be fake than reviews of free-to-download apps. The question that began the paragraph was, "Should you even trust anonymous crowdsourced ratings and reviews?" That was the context.

It's really a mystery to me how you came up with this bizarre interpretation of my words. If I were a wannabe App Store fraudster, why in the world would I be openly blogging about it? And why would I stubbornly stick with the upfront paid business model when I state in the blog post that the financial incentives favor free with IAP, and moreover that it's easier to commit review fraud with the IAP model?

Re: Apple's hostile App Store rating system

#77

Post by lapcat »

ceejayoz wrote: post #72
lapcat wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Top of settings. A banner that shows up after a while. Let me permanently say no; none of the passive-aggressive "maybe later" shit. This is precisely what my app does. It does not interrupt. You haven't used my app. You were only speculating based on one terse screenshotted review, but your speculation is inaccurate.

All we have to go on is what you provided in the post. It might benefit from a "see how gentle I was with it?" screenshot being included. You'll never have everyone be happy with you. Someone will always leave a one star review eventually.

The post is not about me. The purpose of the post is not to defend myself. The purpose was to critique the system.

The problem is that the HN comments want to make it all personal. Certainly the review I received was an inspiration for the blog post, but so was the review that the other developer received.

In general, my own app's reviews are good. I still think the review system is stupid, though.

If you thought the blog post was about me arguing with that one review, I'm afraid that you missed the point. The review was merely a symptom of a larger problem.

Re: Apple's hostile App Store rating system

#78

Post by ceejayoz »

lapcat wrote: post #77
ceejayoz wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All we have to go on is what you provided in the post. It might benefit from a "see how gentle I was with it?" screenshot being included. You'll never have everyone be happy with you. Someone will always leave a one star review eventually.

The post is not about me. The purpose of the post is not to defend myself. The purpose was to critique the system . The problem is that the HN comments want to make it all personal. Certainly the review I received was an inspiration for the blog post, but so was the review that the other developer received. In general, my own app's reviews are good. I still think the review system is stupid, though. If you thought th…

The system has to address the needs of a wide variety of mes and yous. Some of them have wishes that are in direct conflict.

People are responding to your specific claims about your specific situation. Don't be surprised by that.

Some internet rando felt you were nagging them. It happens. Some other rando wanted a specific feature and was annoyed it wasn't available. It happens.

Re: Apple's hostile App Store rating system

#79

Post by lapcat »

ceejayoz wrote: post #78
lapcat wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The post is not about me. The purpose of the post is not to defend myself. The purpose was to critique the system . The problem is that the HN comments want to make it all personal. Certainly the review I received was an inspiration for the blog post, but so was the review that the other developer received. In general, my own app's reviews are good. I still think the review system is stupid, though. If you thought th…

The system has to address the needs of a wide variety of mes and yous. Some of them have wishes that are in direct conflict. People are responding to your specific claims about your specific situation. Don't be surprised by that. Some internet rando felt you were nagging them. It happens. Some other rando wanted a specific feature and was annoyed it wasn't available. It happens.

> The system has to address the needs of a wide variety of mes and yous.

I don't think the system serves anyone, not users or developers. Like I said, the system was primarily an afterthought, a product of quickly cloning the iTunes Music Store into the App Store. Apple can afford to remain complacent because iOS is locked down to the App Store.

Re: Apple's hostile App Store rating system

#80

Post by ceejayoz »

lapcat wrote: post #79
ceejayoz wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The system has to address the needs of a wide variety of mes and yous. Some of them have wishes that are in direct conflict. People are responding to your specific claims about your specific situation. Don't be surprised by that. Some internet rando felt you were nagging them. It happens. Some other rando wanted a specific feature and was annoyed it wasn't available. It happens.

> The system has to address the needs of a wide variety of mes and yous. I don't think the system serves anyone, not users or developers. Like I said, the system was primarily an afterthought, a product of quickly cloning the iTunes Music Store into the App Store. Apple can afford to remain complacent because iOS is locked down to the App Store.

Personally, I find it fairly useful.

Developer replies are a good signal that someone's keeping an eye on feedback.

One star reviews let me see what people find annoying, and the insane ones tend to be pretty easy to filter out. Twenty people complaining about something? Signal! One "doesn't do x" in a sea of good reviews? Ignored.

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