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Canceling "Hey"

chadnauseam.com

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Re: Canceling "Hey"

#231

Post by tastyface »

eduction wrote: post #107
saghm wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He says to deport literally an entire ethnic group independent of whether they happen to sleep in parks, which is the entire point being made by the article linked to by this page where we're commenting. The comment you're responding to also restates this, without making any claims about whether he said to shoot people, so your objection doesn't really make any sense in that regard either.

1. Comment says “shoot them” refers to Roma. Totally false and intentionally misleading. 2. Literally the only place the word deport is used in the post is here: “ When gypsies take over public spaces, you deport them” Please quote where he says to deport all Roma/gypsies.

Do you know the basics of how written language works?

Are you familiar at all with the concept of juxtaposition?

When Tutsis were called "cockroaches" in the lead-up to the Rwandan Genocide, do you think the speakers were literally saying that Tutsis were a type of bug...?

Re: Canceling "Hey"

#232

Post by ChadNauseam »

andrewflnr wrote: post #12

This is trying far too hard to be charitable. Mistake theory is great, and it's good that the article mentions it, but it then also presents sufficient evidence to prove, or at least substantiate, malice. At this point not having "bad feelings toward DHH" is itself a "Missing Mood". At any rate, though, the author took the correct action. Wolves are also pretty important, by the way. Hopefully we all know that by now…

I'd rather be overly charitable 10 times than not charitable enough once. It probably doesn't make me any friends to say it, but let me say why. A slight exaggeration of your view might be that some people are irredeemable mutants who need to be ostracized and can't be reasoned with. I won't stay quiet when I strongly disagree with someone, but I don't need to go that far. I think it's a manifestation of the same tendencies that lead to DHH's post.

Re: Canceling "Hey"

#233

Post by vikingly »

saghm wrote: post #228
vikingly wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes Scandinavians responsible for judging merit of individuals in or even allowing a specific group in? All border control is group based. It’s our country and we have no obligation to let anyone in, especially a group that culturally conflict with ours in ways that violate our social contract and ability to provide basic standards of living to our own kin.

> It’s our country and we have no obligation to let anyone in But they're already in, legally, according to the laws you defined? It's hard to believe that you have such a well-defined social contract that literally everyone agrees that means you can't let in people of another ethnic group if the laws made by the people you suggest literally don't support mass deporting everyone who fits into the group you mention.

A lot of it comes through EU laws, which was agreed to with the assumption of a different population mix in the Schengen free flow of people. Same with migrants brought in through exploited asylum laws which again assumed small numbers from neighboring countries with similar cultures.

Scandinavia is in a much better spot than the UK, which voted in favor of brexit to stop flow and instead received replacement migration.

Re: Canceling "Hey"

#235

Post by DanOpcode »

flumpcakes wrote: post #66

I think DHH's opinion is a very common sentiment in Europe. "Gypsies" are a very European thing. I wonder if there's anything similar in the US? For context for US readers; they generally exist outside of the usual social norms, and have a pretty bad reputation because of it. This is not a defence of DHH, just providing context to his comments.

I cannot speak for all of Europe, since I have no idea what rules are elsewhere. But in Sweden in the municipality I live in, they have banned begging in public areas. And the ones who are begging in public areas in Sweden are predominantly gypsies. There are a few municipalities in Sweden that have banned begging in public areas, while most still allow it. E.g. in the capital Stockholm it's allowed, and you may see gypsies sitting at shopping streets, at the central station and outside stores.

Just wanted to share that there are areas where people have gotten tired of gypsies, and have gotten rid of most of them in this way, as some extra context.

Re: Canceling "Hey"

#236

Post by subsistence234 »

tastyface wrote: post #229
joshcsimmons wrote: post #180

Strange logic and strange days we live in. Typically I just spend money on software that works the best and suits my needs. I don't generally research the individual creating it. We should all know less about eachother!

It was much easier when the CEOs didn't gleefully out themselves as white supremacists on their own corporate social media.

[flagged]

Re: Canceling "Hey"

#237

Post by dash2 »

adamrezich wrote: post #156
roughly wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious where you see the levers of individual agency here, and to what degree you think the affected people have tried to pull them. What's _your_ underlying thesis?

That is beyond my proverbial pay grade. But it's not beyond my proverbial pay grade to state that believing that, systemically , “[x demographic in y location] are way more likely to be [in undesirable situation]” is completely denying agency to the individuals in question by pretending that [x demographic in y location] ending up [in undesirable situation] is something of a weighted dice roll made by unseen forces,…

If people are systematically more likely to be in area X, that may be because they are systematically more likely to make the relevant choices - for example because they are under different constraints or have different preferences. Choice is part of social science.

Re: Canceling "Hey"

#238

Post by dash2 »

xp84 wrote: post #118
windowshopping wrote: post #19

I used to admire that guy. I don't understand why anyone still works at Basecamp with posts like this to be honest. How do people justify it to themselves? Maybe it's just harder to switch jobs now with AI, I don't know.

Maybe a lot of people actually agree with him, and would rather we expect more of people, rather than simply defining criminal activity as an unconscious effect of one's being somehow oppressed, or one's great-great-grandparents being oppressed, or whatever. The culture in question have been infamous for centuries for their value system which is incompatible with most others. Just as it's okay for devout Islamists to…

> okay for DHH and other Westerners to find the Roma value system disgusting.

The Nazis murdered about a million gypsies so “finding a whole value system disgusting” can lead to some quite dark places.

Re: Canceling "Hey"

#239

Post by Anamon »

adamrezich wrote: post #199
roughly wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I see the confusion - in America, we use the word “free” to mean both “allowed to” and “doesn’t cost money,” which leads to the kinds of odd circumstances where one is “free” to do something, but that thing isn’t “free,” so if they lack the money or resources to do so, they’re not actually able to do it. It’s a confusing part of our language and our system. Similarly, we’ve got a bunch of cases where the law says…

Does anyone else here know what this guy is talking about? I think he completely misread my post. I was asking if a black American citizen moving to Oakland had some arbitrary percent chance of becoming homeless after living there for awhile, based on his ethnicity and whatever structural factors Oakland has going for it alone (as implied by the rhetoric elsewhere in the thread). He then turned it into some kind of t…

They're calling you out on asking why the homeless don't just move, ignoring that (a) even the homeless have roots and social networks in the areas they live in, (b) long-distance travel is not trivial for those without financial means, (c) they may not have a reason to move away (what good is it to still be homeless in another town that you don't know?) and possibly other points.

Clearly, there are systemic reasons for certain ethnicities to be at higher risk of becoming homeless (not just in the U.S.). There are also clear reasons why people who share an ethnicity like living near each other, regardless of financial means. I think you're looking for a causation between two phenomena that may be entirely independent from each other.

Edit: I think this may have started with a misinterpretation of the initial post here (which was by a user who hasn't replied any further). You may have interpreted it as "in the Bay area, PoC are more likely to be homeless" while the original wording also allows for the interpretation of "PoC are more likely to be homeless, which e.g. is noticeable in the Bay area" that doesn't imply causation and is how I read the comment.

Re: Canceling "Hey"

#240

Post by soco »

scheme271 wrote: post #226
soco wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then fix the laws, and/or advocate to fix the laws. Laws must exist in order to have a society, and no defeatist attitude will ever fix them. Laws won't fix by themselves, a majority needs to need them fixed. And then APPLY them.

But in the meantime follow the bad law? If the law said that you aren't supposed to give water to the people that cross the desert would you follow that even if the person is dying of thirst?

Oh dear, the desert thirst seems to be a beloved metaphor on HN... Anyway: you can and should have both. Because it's wrong and backwards to just disrespect laws - it breaks said society structure - without actively trying to do something to replace its wrong pillars. It might be more poetic or movie-like to be the hidden hero sharing water, but without a law change, when you'll be eventually busted (because you will) the stupid desert crossers will dry out. Literally.
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