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Htmx 4.0, the first JavaScript library to release exclusively on the Game Boy

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Re: Htmx 4.0, the first JavaScript library to release exclusively on the Game Boy

#191

Post by yawaramin »

troupo wrote: post #189
yawaramin wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What do you think hx-get and hx-trigger Hx-attributes are not a new ‘templating syntax’, they’re custom attributes with a simple DSL for describing triggers and swaps. You can prefix them with ‘data-‘ if you want and they will be 100% standards-conformant. HTML itself is full of these little in-attribute DSLs–look up the standard ‘autocomplete’ attribute: When people complain about this stuff, they just reveal they…

> Hx-attributes are not a new ‘templating syntax’, They are. If you look at how they are processed by HTMX itself. > they’re custom attributes with a simple DSL At least you agree that it's a custom DSL > You can prefix them with ‘data-‘ if you want and they will be 100% standards-conformant. It doesn't matter if they are "standards compliant". The browser has literally no idea what they are, and what that DSL is. HT…

You must be joking, React Flight Protocol for RSC is literally a new RPC system that comes with its own set of brand-new vulnerabilities. But sure, adding a couple of HTTP headers, which were designed for exactly this kind of use case (adding metadata to requests and responses), is a bridge too far.

Re: Htmx 4.0, the first JavaScript library to release exclusively on the Game Boy

#192

Post by yawaramin »

troupo wrote: post #187
yawaramin wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hamburger menu on the htmx.org site using JavaScript has nothing to do with htmx the framework itself, they’re completely unrelated. It wouldn’t be difficult to make the hamburger menu work without any JS by just using the Popover API, which again is completely unrelated to htmx and can be used by any frontend framework. I assure you I know quite a bit more than you when it comes to htmx and progressive enhancement,…

> Hamburger menu on the htmx.org site using JavaScript has nothing to do with htmx the framework itself, they’re completely unrelated. Yup, the unworking hamburger menu on the website preaching about progressive enhancement and built entirely with this framework "has nothing to do with htmx". All examples on HTMX site that we're told will just work "with full page reload" and that don't work also have nothing to do w…

The htmx website is full of demos showing how htmx works. Htmx is a JavaScript framework. Unsurprisingly, some of these demos don’t work when JavaScript is turned off. This thread is getting absurd now.

Re: Htmx 4.0, the first JavaScript library to release exclusively on the Game Boy

#193

Post by asdf88990 »

sethops1 wrote: post #182
asdfsa32 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is drop shipping stuff.

A true statement for virtually any piece of merch you could buy from any company.

Hardly. The quality stuff are often not drop shipped.

Re: Htmx 4.0, the first JavaScript library to release exclusively on the Game Boy

#195

Post by yawaramin »

gulugawa wrote: post #143

While I prefer to stay with an approach of using web components for my current work, HTMX seems like a good option to consider for future work. I think the design of HTMX acts as a complexity limiter by encouraging less JS. One can make the argument that manually writing JS instead of HTMX would be easier and more maintainable. However, I've found that JS code often trends towards becoming increasingly complex over t…

Htmx can work great with web components.

Re: Htmx 4.0, the first JavaScript library to release exclusively on the Game Boy

#196

Post by troupo »

yawaramin wrote: post #191
troupo wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hx-attributes are not a new ‘templating syntax’, They are. If you look at how they are processed by HTMX itself. > they’re custom attributes with a simple DSL At least you agree that it's a custom DSL > You can prefix them with ‘data-‘ if you want and they will be 100% standards-conformant. It doesn't matter if they are "standards compliant". The browser has literally no idea what they are, and what that DSL is. HT…

You must be joking, React Flight Protocol for RSC is literally a new RPC system that comes with its own set of brand-new vulnerabilities. But sure, adding a couple of HTTP headers, which were designed for exactly this kind of use case (adding metadata to requests and responses), is a bridge too far.

Because 1) React is the only framework out there and b) that somehow absolves HTMX or makes anything I said untrue

Re: Htmx 4.0, the first JavaScript library to release exclusively on the Game Boy

#197

Post by troupo »

yawaramin wrote: post #192
troupo wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hamburger menu on the htmx.org site using JavaScript has nothing to do with htmx the framework itself, they’re completely unrelated. Yup, the unworking hamburger menu on the website preaching about progressive enhancement and built entirely with this framework "has nothing to do with htmx". All examples on HTMX site that we're told will just work "with full page reload" and that don't work also have nothing to do w…

The htmx website is full of demos showing how htmx works. Htmx is a JavaScript framework. Unsurprisingly, some of these demos don’t work when JavaScript is turned off. This thread is getting absurd now.

A reminder. I was told things just work: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49071380

And now you're repeating what I already said and somehow pretending it's an argument with something I didn't say.

Re: Htmx 4.0, the first JavaScript library to release exclusively on the Game Boy

#198

Post by albuic »

sevenzero wrote: post #188
albuic wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JavaScript ?

Nah vanilla Javascript is fine as it was built to make stuff more interactive on the frontend side, which it works great for.

I don't agree. JavaScript was definitly not fine when it started and because of it, people had to create multiple libraries and framework to go around differences in web-browsers. They got used to libraries and big framework as they really were necessary first. Now that JavaScript is pretty good, they are still used to frameworks and libraries which are very often unnecessary.

Re: Htmx 4.0, the first JavaScript library to release exclusively on the Game Boy

#199

Post by rtpg »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #160
rtpg wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unless it's a web site that can tolerate no downtime at all during schema updates, SQLite in WAL2 mode is more than enough. I do think that people really underestimate how quickly a system starts being "please, no downtime" (or its weaker cousin, "please, don't make your ops people do rollouts at 1AM"). Like obviously it's not the end of the world but the default assumption of "the system is up" makes a loooooot of…

Trying to have so few blips they're invisible to bug tracking is a very expensive level of uptime. It takes a lot of convenience to add up that high, compared to ignoring errors for thirty seconds at noon.

The sort of real thing is that it's not just about no-downtime deploys, but also stuff like rolling back smoothly, general continuous deployment or even just generally being able to easily move between versions.

I still think there are lines (I have to begrudgingly accept that downtime for PG upgrades is still basically worth it because the effort to not downtime there is so high but the frequency is so low), and it's a spectrum. But I've found that this particular flavor of tech debt tends to hurt quite a lot even with fairly low activity systems

Re: Htmx 4.0, the first JavaScript library to release exclusively on the Game Boy

#200

Post by Dylan16807 »

rtpg wrote: post #199
Dylan16807 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trying to have so few blips they're invisible to bug tracking is a very expensive level of uptime. It takes a lot of convenience to add up that high, compared to ignoring errors for thirty seconds at noon.

The sort of real thing is that it's not just about no-downtime deploys, but also stuff like rolling back smoothly, general continuous deployment or even just generally being able to easily move between versions. I still think there are lines (I have to begrudgingly accept that downtime for PG upgrades is still basically worth it because the effort to not downtime there is so high but the frequency is so low), and it'…

I don't think "we restart it to update" counts as debt. It's choosing not to add complicated systems in exchange for uptime.
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