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US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

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Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#721

Post by cestith »

inigyou wrote: post #605
invalidusernam3 wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like an insane thing to have to do for visiting a supposed first world country. If phones had been around during USSR times I imagine you would have had to do the same. Personally I will rather just avoid any travel to the US, and I hope others do the same.

The US is first world on a technicality: the first world is defined as countries that were allied with the US during the cold war. If not for that, it'd be classified as developing. It's common to mix up developing/developed and third/first world because they were largely aligned during the cold war. But there is one first-world developing country.

The US is not so allied with its long-time allies as it used to be. Allies tend not to threaten to invade and take over other allies.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#722

Post by peter_stokes »

leni536 wrote: post #698
majke wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many countries now assume you have a phone. For example getting UK visa requires a smartphone. I don't think going without a phone is feasible nowadays. Another question is if going with a burner phone that has just sim card and bank card, sufficient. But then you need appleid/google account on the device, and this again links back to your phone number, and it's not easy in practice to have proper clean device.

> UK visa requires a smartphone I don't think this is accurate.

she's wrong. i did it on the browser on my desktop. the ui definitely doesn't make it easy to find though.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#723

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

schoen wrote: post #383

I co-wrote a border search guide for EFF some years ago. I was very interested in finding clever technical approaches but I later ended up feeling that I hadn't given enough thought to the overall threat model questions (even though the guide did address them, perhaps even somewhat usefully). The big picture problem is that the agents performing the searches have an enormous amount of power in terms of potentially se…

There’s more to it than just not antagonizing the guards. I mean if you make them mad by doing something that is legal that’s probably not ideal for you practically speaking, but it’s not the end of the world. Destroying evidence while they are investigating you is not just going to make them mad though. It is illegal (18 USC section 1519).

Where I think people are a little confused here is not realizing that this would be equally illegal in many other countries. At least in the UK and France, border investigators also have the power to demand your PIN. And it is also illegal to wipe your phone during an investigation in those countries.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#724

Post by CWuestefeld »

Markoff wrote: post #607
mcv wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Security concerns you need to think about when visiting the US are absolutely no less than those when visiting China these days. Treat it like a totalitarian dictatorship with more technological means.

Nobody in China cares about your phone/laptop.* *Unless you are (well) known dissident/journalisy/politician. US is much more totalitarian than China. Lived in China for years, had multiple times various visa/residence permit issues with police and guess what, nobody cared about my electronics or was sending me to any detention, all I've got were quie helpful officers trying to find workarounds for me to deal with th…

In the past I've felt the same way in China. At a macro level there may be a lot more restrictions there. But when it comes to day-to-day life, it seemed like people had much fewer regulations bearing down on them.

For example, you'll see farmers on the Shanghai streets come in from the countryside to sell their produce - and doing so with impunity. In, say, NYC there are vendors still, but they've got their wares on a blanket that they can quickly scoop up and get away when the police come by.

There seemed to be a tacit agreement between the people and the Chinese oligarchy: if you let those in power just keep doing what they want, they'll just ignore you.

However, China is a pendulum. It was very much the opposite at the time of Tienanmen Square; from the late 90s into the 10s there was quite a lot of freedom; but now with Xi's power having been consolidated, it's swinging back toward authoritarianism again. I've seen people describing more recent conditions there as the start of Cultural Revolution 2.0.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#725

Post by Noaidi »

itake wrote: post #389
schoen wrote: post #383

I co-wrote a border search guide for EFF some years ago. I was very interested in finding clever technical approaches but I later ended up feeling that I hadn't given enough thought to the overall threat model questions (even though the guide did address them, perhaps even somewhat usefully). The big picture problem is that the agents performing the searches have an enormous amount of power in terms of potentially se…

can you share the link? This? https://www.eff.org/document/eff-border-search-pocket-guide ---- Seems the better strategy (for iOS) is come in with a plan to say yes to agents without pissing them off (like handing them an empty phone). better to local back up, encrypt, upload to your home server etc. Then login to a fresh iCloud account, selectively install apps, photos, and mail accounts. So it doesn't look like you…

I guess you could just bring a flip phone. But then that could be seen as suspicious these days.

When a government is paranoid, everything is suspicious.

Maybe just don't do anything on your phone but normal capitalist business sht.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#727

Post by regnull »

How is it different from smashing your phone on the floor and destroying it when asked to unlock? Just because it's a code that wipes it makes no difference. I'm not saying the agents were right to ask for it, but it seems like if you feel that your rights are violated you should refuse to unlock the phone, not destroy the content in front of them.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#728

Post by iamnothere »

Aurornis wrote: post #180
godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"U.S. law though is highly non-autistic" hilarious but also another point to emphasize is how truly depressing American courts often are. Take the right to a jury. It sounds noble in theory. But when they say judged by your peers they don't mean your actual peers. It's people who couldn't get out of jury duty. Prosecutors have high success rates. Federal prosecutor success rate is over > 90%. Studies of jury psycholo…

> Federal prosecutor success rate is over > 90%. This is a misunderstood statistic. Federal prosecutors won't even pursue cases unless they think there's a high chance of success. They don't operate like two private parties suing each other to force the court to decide something. If the evidence is there or the charges aren't fully formed, they don't waste resources on it. This leads to a contradictory set of complai…

True, although many prosecutors do also try to put their thumb on the scale when possible.

For comparison, Japan has a 99.9% conviction rate, but defers prosecution in 60% of cases. And police aren’t arresting or even attempting to enforce the law for every crime. Citizens complain that petty crime laws aren’t being enforced enough, leading to a rise in things like graffiti, litter, and traffic violations (the “bosozoku” motorcycle gangs are having a resurgence). But if you do face prosecution, there is enormous pressure to sign a confession and avoid trial, as a conviction at trial may be punished more harshly. Very similar in some respects.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#729

Post by mattstir »

MetaWhirledPeas wrote: post #150
zarzavat wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible that could be destruction of evidence as well. Why should it matter whose meat sticks type in the decoy pin?

Because one is a clear intent to mislead while the other has plausible deniability. "It was there in case of robbery."

The prosecution would argue that you ought to have warned officers about the duress pin since this wasn't a robbery scenario.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#730

Post by krunck »

dopamean wrote: post #726

I'd love a feature where if you enter a specific passcode it unlocks the phone into a different account that has curated things in it. Pictures, some pre-approved apps, etc. So you look like you've cooperated but you haven't really.

And each user's home directory is stored on a separate hidden partition that is encrypted with another PIN so that even if the device is rooted they can't look at the other user's data.
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