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US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

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Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#711

Post by buellerbueller »

Waterluvian wrote: post #705
buellerbueller wrote: post #704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>[Some] Americans have asked for, or tacitly accepted this treatment of their visitors. You forgot a word.

I hope to meet one some day.

Unlikely, because of your priors; you already think we are odious so it isn't like you are looking for the best in (or of) us, and second why would they want to meet you if you assume the worst of them? I don't support this Administration's behavior, but I'd rather meet an American who did and have a discussion with them about it than try to convince some dude who already decided I was an asshole, based on the country I'm from.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#712

Post by pbmonster »

jvanderbot wrote: post #678
raxxorraxor wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We probably need honey pod fake OS systems that boots up if not properly handled displaying some stars & stripes as background image and having the US national anthem playing for any sound the OS is trying to play.

A phone with a backup account, unlocked with duress pin makes sense to me. How hard would it be to admin-allow some apps to work across barriers. E.g., wallet apps work, airline tickets work, but email/socials do not. the issue is that when a phone is unlocked, they can just plug in a USB device and scrape everything off it. The TSA agent may not be eyeballing a facebook account so much as plugging in an exfiltration…

> the issue is that when a phone is unlocked, they can just plug in a USB device and scrape everything off it

That's useless if the backup account and the main account use different keys for the home partition.

VeraCrypt (used to?) have this. It was called a hidden volume. One volume, but two keys, two passwords, and two different containers full of data. Technically, the second volume is written into the partition "from the back" using key 2, while the first volume is written "from the front" using key 1.

Fun fact, there's no protection against writing over data in the other volume if volume 1 + volume 2 exceed the size of the partition - and there can't be, otherwise the volume wouldn't be hidden.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#713

Post by buellerbueller »

eviks wrote: post #710
buellerbueller wrote: post #704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>[Some] Americans have asked for, or tacitly accepted this treatment of their visitors. You forgot a word.

[flagged]

1. "most" is debatable

2. "Some" is a superset that includes "most"

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#714

Post by tristor »

inigyou wrote: post #605
invalidusernam3 wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like an insane thing to have to do for visiting a supposed first world country. If phones had been around during USSR times I imagine you would have had to do the same. Personally I will rather just avoid any travel to the US, and I hope others do the same.

The US is first world on a technicality: the first world is defined as countries that were allied with the US during the cold war. If not for that, it'd be classified as developing. It's common to mix up developing/developed and third/first world because they were largely aligned during the cold war. But there is one first-world developing country.

The UK, per capita, is poorer than every single state in the US. https://finance.yahoo.com/economy/articles/gdp-alert-united-...

As much as the current situation in the US upsets me, anyone who has spent considerable time within the US and outside of the US cannot believe what you've stated as anything other than a trite delusion. The US isn't just the richest country in the world, it has the second highest purchasing power parity per capita in 2026 and historically the highest. The average person in Mississippi is economically better off than the average person in England.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#715

Post by iamnothere »

dgoldstein0 wrote: post #467
Telaneo wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but then says he can't have me disrespecting and being a smart-ass to his cops Maybe it's just me, but I am of the exact opposite opinion. Cops have enormous power, and any misuse of it should be pushed back on hard. Cops that misuse their power should not be respected. An informed citizenry is a wonderful asset in making that power imbalance less of a problem.

There's a difference between polite pushback and being straight up disrespectful. It shouldn't matter as the cops shouldn't abuse their power and shouldn't attack people, but we live in the real world. The judge probably didn't want to have to deal with the potential future mess if op didn't learn their lesson and got beat up by a cop.

Respect is earned, not given. Police in some communities are (generally) respected, but they are also (generally) professional.

When trust breaks down, it’s up to those who hold power to restore it, not those subject to power. Too often authority demands submission as a substitute for trust, and the results are predictable.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#716

Post by tristor »

dgoldstein0 wrote: post #467
Telaneo wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but then says he can't have me disrespecting and being a smart-ass to his cops Maybe it's just me, but I am of the exact opposite opinion. Cops have enormous power, and any misuse of it should be pushed back on hard. Cops that misuse their power should not be respected. An informed citizenry is a wonderful asset in making that power imbalance less of a problem.

There's a difference between polite pushback and being straight up disrespectful. It shouldn't matter as the cops shouldn't abuse their power and shouldn't attack people, but we live in the real world. The judge probably didn't want to have to deal with the potential future mess if op didn't learn their lesson and got beat up by a cop.

> There's a difference between polite pushback and being straight up disrespectful.

That's a distinction without a difference. Cops see any form of noncompliance as disrespectful ("contempt of cop"). You not only legally can, but absolutely should be able to tell a cop "Get fucked" to their face and walk away if they have no legal basis to detain you. The fact that in reality you will have your life ruined is a problem far worse than any "disrespect".

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#717

Post by cestith »

jvanderbot wrote: post #678
raxxorraxor wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We probably need honey pod fake OS systems that boots up if not properly handled displaying some stars & stripes as background image and having the US national anthem playing for any sound the OS is trying to play.

A phone with a backup account, unlocked with duress pin makes sense to me. How hard would it be to admin-allow some apps to work across barriers. E.g., wallet apps work, airline tickets work, but email/socials do not. the issue is that when a phone is unlocked, they can just plug in a USB device and scrape everything off it. The TSA agent may not be eyeballing a facebook account so much as plugging in an exfiltration…

For now the courts in the US have set a different barrier for automated extraction and hand searches. For now.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#718

Post by cynicalsecurity »

Markoff wrote: post #607
mcv wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Security concerns you need to think about when visiting the US are absolutely no less than those when visiting China these days. Treat it like a totalitarian dictatorship with more technological means.

Nobody in China cares about your phone/laptop.* *Unless you are (well) known dissident/journalisy/politician. US is much more totalitarian than China. Lived in China for years, had multiple times various visa/residence permit issues with police and guess what, nobody cared about my electronics or was sending me to any detention, all I've got were quie helpful officers trying to find workarounds for me to deal with th…

What region of China was that?

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#719

Post by Verdex »

morkalork wrote: post #95
Verdex wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an interesting idea, but was that GrapheneOS person a lawyer giving legal advice?

No, he wasn't, what is your point?

Today we see someone being arrested because they used a software feature. Next year we'll see someone being arrested because they played a cutesy trick and got the LEO to enter in the self destruct code.

The engineers and techies involved have so far shown themselves to have poor intuition for understanding how the law is going to react. I think it behooves anyone still listening to their advice to also check in with someone who has a good intuition for how the law will react to this new idea.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#720

Post by iamnothere »

majke wrote: post #519
jpfromlondon wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't carry a smartphone, is this likely to be a red flag if I'm stopped?

Many countries now assume you have a phone. For example getting UK visa requires a smartphone. I don't think going without a phone is feasible nowadays. Another question is if going with a burner phone that has just sim card and bank card, sufficient. But then you need appleid/google account on the device, and this again links back to your phone number, and it's not easy in practice to have proper clean device.

You can simply use an Apple account for your primary device and a Google account for your burner (or vice versa). Or set up a secondary Apple or Google account. Or use a device/OS that doesn’t require one of these accounts!
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