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The Strongest El Niño Ever

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Re: The Strongest El Niño Ever

#261

Post by tshaddox »

otherme123 wrote: post #108
tshaddox wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t see anything meme-like in the comment you responded to. Or even anything related to environmentalism. To me, it just looked like good health advice.

In case you don't know, there is a meme in the US that Europe don't know/don't have A/C. We do, but in some coutries there are laws banning A/C below 25°C (77°F) in public places, so (US) tourist don't get the cold air hit when entering a building like a musseum, leaving with the impression we don't know A/C. No general A/C might be the case in regions that never needed it before (mild summers, cold winters), but the…

I'm well aware of the memes and discourse on Twitter (although I don't seek it out). My point is that that original comment had none of that. No calling people "europoor." Just important advice delivered unsensationally.

Re: The Strongest El Niño Ever

#262

Post by puttycat »

jordanb wrote: post #173
puttycat wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is that both sides have a point. European countries (notably France) have known for at least 30 years that this was coming, but was ideologically insisting not to install proper AC or even ventilation in public spaces and transport. This does not contradict the wider angle about Americans ignoring climate change.

> ideologically insisting not to install proper AC or even ventilation This is not supported by facts. People won't spend money on equipment they don't need. Most places in France do not need air conditioning (or did not need it). It makes no sense that a building owner or transit agency would spend limited funds on something that they do not need. One may argue that the government of France should have imposed some…

It is very much so supported by facts, see sister comment.

Re: The Strongest El Niño Ever

#263

Post by puttycat »

Danox wrote: post #237
omnimus wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of greenhouse it also depends on type of meat. Very acidental but europeans eat much less beef and eat pork/chicken instead. Chicken protein for example is in many cases better than cheese emission wise. Also i don't think europeans don't use AC to save the planet. It's just expensive and it didn't use to be a problem.

Paris didn’t have air-conditioning because they sit at a latitude of 49 where in the past you might have a week maybe two of sustained high temperatures above 90°, since Paris sits at a latitude of 49 which is north of the United States-Canadian border all the way from Vancouver to the lake of the woods Minnesota. Which is hardly air-conditioning country above latitude 49 although obviously climate change may change…

As mentioned in other comments, what you call the past has been known for at least 30-40 years to be soon obsolete. They had enough time to prepare to this.

Re: The Strongest El Niño Ever

#264

Post by arw0n »

mhitza wrote: post #174
jordanb wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's clearly an op by people who don't want the story to be about a historic heatwave ravaging Europe, so instead they make it about dum Europeans without air conditioning (which they didn't need before).

That's an uncharitable interpretation of the initial comment. It can also be read as health-sensible reminder given the climate warnings. AC units demand is already up 26% year over year in my country (according to our biggest online retailer, a month ago). Will be a highly profitable year for manufacturers.

That's how I read it as well. It really sucks that one of the ways we will have to cope with climate change is to build a lot of energy intensive, expensive infrastructure, but it seems pretty much inevitable at this point. The silver lining is that solar is cheap and accessible, and produces the most energy at the time where we will want to run AC as well.

Re: The Strongest El Niño Ever

#265

Post by giardini »

chomp wrote: post #28
giardini wrote: post #2

[flagged]

You don't seem to understand how this works. El Niño is one half of a 2 part cycle. You don’t get permanent hurricane reduction.

I understand perfectly how it works! I'm just happy not to worry about hurricanes this year! I'm an optimist. More bad news for you, I fear.

Re: The Strongest El Niño Ever

#267

Post by otherme123 »

tshaddox wrote: post #261
otherme123 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In case you don't know, there is a meme in the US that Europe don't know/don't have A/C. We do, but in some coutries there are laws banning A/C below 25°C (77°F) in public places, so (US) tourist don't get the cold air hit when entering a building like a musseum, leaving with the impression we don't know A/C. No general A/C might be the case in regions that never needed it before (mild summers, cold winters), but the…

I'm well aware of the memes and discourse on Twitter (although I don't seek it out). My point is that that original comment had none of that. No calling people "europoor." Just important advice delivered unsensationally.

To me, it sounded a bit "euro-A/C-ignorant" meme, but maybe I am on the receiving end and thus slightly oversensitive, because El Niño is not scientifically linked to any climate effect in Europe. It is known to cause effects in North America from Canada to Mexico, whole South America, Australia, South and East Asia, and South of Africa. Why it might sound as an attack to an european? Europe is "first world" and has money to buy A/C (and in fact we are doing it). There will be regions that will suffer a lot more than Europe due to this El Niño event.

The problem with Europe is not El Niño. Our problem is that we are the worse region in the world in how fast the temperature is rising, as you can see in this image/page:

https://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/maps/

https://data.giss.nasa.gov/tmp/gistemp/NMAPS/tmp_GHCNv4_ERSS...

We could live without A/C, and many thought that the increase would be bearable. But then we received a slap in the face, with +7ºC (+12ºF) in the western half, +4ºC (7ºF) in the eastern and north. Deaths by heat don't usually happen at someone's house without A/C: they primarily happen either to people in elderly homes without A/C and maybe even impaired to ask for help or to hydrate properly, or people working outside in sun hours. Putting A/C in every room of every home in Europe would do little if elderly homes, many of them public, are not properly adapted.

Statistics in France show that 75% of the heat related deaths happen in people 75 and older, over 90% in people 65 and older. As sad as is might sound, it is seen as a new "natural cause" of death. Hopefully those buildings will adapt.

Re: The Strongest El Niño Ever

#268

Post by nextaccountic »

buybackoff wrote: post #21

I've seen dozens of videos and articles about this strongest ever event. And I still have no clue if the next year I should evacuate from Paris for the summer because heatwaves may be even crazier than this year, or prolonged heavy rains are more likely and can make the city more livable.

In the short term the year-to-year temperature fluctuates. Next year might be better than this year

In the medium term, summers in Paris WILL be worse than this year

It will come a day that good years are the ones that are as mild as 2026

Re: The Strongest El Niño Ever

#269

Post by protocolture »

hammock wrote: post #86
gmuslera wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That should be the scary part. We know how El Niño affects world's weather, but it is also a symptom of how much heat the ocean is absorbing. That core problem won't end this year or the next one, and it will keep disrupting global climate. And with it, agriculture, settlements, economy and civilization as we know it. And the scariest part is what we do about it. Keep doing activities that rise global temperature and…

It’s all so scary! I regret having a child.

>It’s all so scary! I regret having a child.

I dont get this. I would regret having a kid maybe if he turns out to not be resilient and up to the challenges posed by the changing climate and the shitty political situation. But those are things I can work with him on. Opsec can be taught. Political dissent can be taught. This thing can be turned around when the political class has been disposed of.

Re: The Strongest El Niño Ever

#270

Post by giardini »

Remember that you don't need AC to beat the heat - we've had other options for centuries. One of my favorites is fans.

I've lived in a hot subtropical climate most of my life. The best modes of cooling are, in order of comfort: shade, clothing, breeze, fans, A/C.

Our rather large home didn't have A/C when we bought it. But it did have a huge attic fan that kept the air moving throughout the entire house on hot days. That worked fine from the time the house was built in about 1930 to present (yes, it's still there). At one point we installed a few window units in designated rooms but they were never necessary.

shade - Even on a hot day it's very comfortable in tree-shaded areas. The trees cool the air.

clothes - wear light-colored clothes with fabrics that wick perspiration.

breeze - if you live in an area with a constant breeze, you'll be more comfortable. Sometimes that comes with a caveat: watch out for storms associated with coastal breezes (such as hurricanes).

fans - sometimes a small room fan is just right. Or if you live someplace where you can pay someone to wave a palm frond around you all day, so much the better.

A/C may seem to be the best but imo it isn't b/c it is not transparent: other people are always messing with the controls, there are insufficent/incorrectly-demarcated "zones" in a building, the humidity varies unsuitably, condensation forms in unexpected areas (even inside walls and under floors) and you don't find out for 12 years, etc.

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