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US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

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Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#331

Post by esikich »

apparent wrote: post #103
reenorap wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have the duress PIN on sticker on your phone. Maybe put it backwards and don’t say anything to border patrol. Have them try it out and erase the phone and then you can legitimately say you didn’t do anything and they did it themselves.

Why would agents think that a number written on your phone is the PIN? That would only make sense if it was a communally-used device, not a personal one. Also, no one would put sensitive info on a devices that has the PIN affixed to it. I suppose it's possible someone might enter it without thinking, but the odds seem low. Also seems risky to put a self-destruct PIN on your device, lest a friend (or enemy) enter it b…

I've worked with fleets of company phones and mobile devices, people absolutely do this.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#332

Post by 8note »

sfRattan wrote: post #25

Ultimately, when you choose to enter a duress PIN that will wipe your device, you have to recognize that choice may have legal consequences. I don't like the amount of power our government has at the national border when it comes to detaining and pressuring citizens, but our Constitution explicitly grants it at least some of the power it now exercises in that context. If your threat model includes US state actors at…

this means: put a good government in charge of the border that respects your rights

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#333

Post by LadyCailin »

nkrisc wrote: post #96
reenorap wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have the duress PIN on sticker on your phone. Maybe put it backwards and don’t say anything to border patrol. Have them try it out and erase the phone and then you can legitimately say you didn’t do anything and they did it themselves.

But if the prosecutors can make a convincing argument that your intent was exactly that all along, then you may end up convicted anyway. Intent matters. It might be hard to prove, but it matters. It may not even be that hard; what other possible explanation is there for someone putting a PIN visible on their phone that wipes it while crossing a border?

They might be able to convict on that, but that sets a dangerous precedent imo, which is that doing anything preemptively to prevent searches is conviction worthy, including the preparation the OP suggested.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#334

Post by 8note »

nkrisc wrote: post #96
reenorap wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have the duress PIN on sticker on your phone. Maybe put it backwards and don’t say anything to border patrol. Have them try it out and erase the phone and then you can legitimately say you didn’t do anything and they did it themselves.

But if the prosecutors can make a convincing argument that your intent was exactly that all along, then you may end up convicted anyway. Intent matters. It might be hard to prove, but it matters. It may not even be that hard; what other possible explanation is there for someone putting a PIN visible on their phone that wipes it while crossing a border?

if the cops do that, they're breaking the law with that search already

theyll have a hard time showing that you intended for the government to break the law. first the government would have to admit breaking the law

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#335

Post by 8note »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #181
everfree wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under US law, you have a nearly absolute right to not answer police questions.

Yes of course. But their use of the PIN will likely only occur if you answer, which many people will. This is a common setup in interrogations.

the utah cops definitely would, based on whats been released from the rwckless ben bodycam footage

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#336

Post by zuzululu »

itake wrote: post #230
zuzululu wrote: post #85

why not just have a separate device for traveling ?

- e-sims make it much more difficult to swap sim cards between devices. - presumably border patrol wants to see his photos, social accounts, and email. A separate device with a copy of the information they want isn't a defense. Creating fresh travel-only accounts is tedious, b/c fresh accounts aren't connected to your friends or network (with whom you'd want to share your trip with).

you could login to your stuff after but the point is to minimize damage when you do lose your device abroad

laziness isn't an excuse and if you do want access to your phone or device at home you could setup that as well

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#338

Post by zuzululu »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #131
zuzululu wrote: post #85

why not just have a separate device for traveling ?

Yeah, that's my position. If you're paranoid enough to be using GrapheneOS, why would you take it to an airport in the US of all places? I bought a second hand iPhone for overseas trips, which my daughter promptly stole because she wanted an iPhone, but then i got her old android phone, which was LineageOS-compatible, so that became my travel phone.

GrapheneOS is excellent but seems like it just brings unwanted attention at this stage.

Another plus is if you do lose the device the damage is minimal, its a bit of a hassle but nothing beats peace of mind

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#339

Post by etienne89 »

So in GrapheneOS you enter your regular passcode to unlock it and a secondary passcode will wipe everything? Maybe it needs a third option where it just shows predefined apps/data, so it could just show e.g. WhatsApp, a set off chosen photo albums and some irrelevant office documents. Could also be useful for handing it to children, so they can access some games or whatever but nothing critical

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#340

Post by helterskelter »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #316
godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"U.S. law though is highly non-autistic" hilarious but also another point to emphasize is how truly depressing American courts often are. Take the right to a jury. It sounds noble in theory. But when they say judged by your peers they don't mean your actual peers. It's people who couldn't get out of jury duty. Prosecutors have high success rates. Federal prosecutor success rate is over > 90%. Studies of jury psycholo…

Some of us report for jury duty just itching to nullify something. Don't you? Checks and balances...

I got selected as juror once just hoping to laugh at anything the cops said on the witness stand and let some poor soul go free but it turns out the defendant was just a violent scumbag who stabbed random people in public, and there was a video of it. After we decided he was guilty, they listed other things he had been convicted of and asked if he was a repeat offender... Let's see, shot somebody in the back, robbed liquor stores at gun point (dressed as a clown IIRC) and some other weird shit. That decision didn't take very long.

Honestly we didn't even throw the book at him, prosecutors were charging him with a bunch of offenses and we decided guilty on only two, but the repeat offender bit probably locked him up for a few decades.

The funny thing was that all the jurors thought the victim was a complete douchebag and thought both parties deserved time. As it turns, somebody I knew at the time knew the victim from childhood and he apparently molested his 8 year old cousin.

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