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US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

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Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#311

Post by mrtksn »

rock_artist wrote: post #236

For non-graphene users (eg. Boring iPhone people like me). So there’s a feature called Duress PIN which as explained through some comments means you put a different pin which intentionally wipes the phone. It’s not auto wipe or wipe after several failed attempts but intentional wipe of device. (Worth explanation as the current title nor the article doesn't easily explain this was made by the US citizen providing the…

Sounds like a feature that under right circumstances can land you in Guantanamo for 5 years where eventually you get cleared once the real terrorist gets caught.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#312

Post by 8note »

ziofill wrote: post #206
Georgelemental wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A duress pin is useful if the cost of the government getting mad at you because you wiped your data is less than the cost of letting the government have your data. Whether that holds depends on your situation—for example, whether your phone's data could implicate other people that you want to protect

When talking about costs we should remember who is paying. Maybe overall the cost of the government getting that data is higher than the cost of them getting mad at you, but when a single individual is paying for all of it the equation might change.

ultimately everyone is paying the price of reduced rights and freedoms when the government starts wanting to check your phone for wrong-think and harass unofficial enemies of the state

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#313

Post by 8note »

pennomi wrote: post #93
zug_zug wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people are aware that the government can physically do a lot of stuff, e.g. shoot you in the face for no reason. And vice-versa for that matter. However there are arguments morally, and constitutionally, and logically, about what can be done.

And all of those arguments are entirely academic, and subject to change depending on economic status, skin color, or nationality. Law is effectively a weak gentleman’s agreement we tolerate because the alternative is violence. (Well, law is enforced with violence too, I suppose.)

well, the status quo is also violence, just directed at some people and not others

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#314

Post by 8note »

mmooss wrote: post #177
wand3r wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is something more people really need to take to heart. As Americans are seeing, a lot of rules are unenforceable and really came down to norms and pressure. I have been thinking about this a lot over the last few years and it is roughly encapsulated in this tweet I saw a while back. When I was a kid I wanted to be a police officer because I wouldn't have to follow any laws or rules. Then I got a little bit…

> This has always been true and there has never really been perfect justice. You raise the standard for justice to perfection. There also has never been perfect corruption and anarchy. > Ultimately, power and violence have always superseded the law. That's like saying night has always superceded day. Everyone recognizes that recent years have been very unusual or unique in US history. That means for the great bulk of…

> Everyone recognizes that recent years have been very unusual or unique in US history.

i dont?

this is how the US has always been. its who americans are. the odd time was the obama years

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#315

Post by razorbeamz »

cameldrv wrote: post #74

I’ve seen a lot of people on the internet over the years say things like “the government can’t make x illegal, it’s just y.” For example, the government can’t make wiping your phone at the border illegal, it’s just punching four numbers into your phone, just like a pin, only a different four numbers, which could just have well been your pin. U.S. law though is highly non-autistic and what you were trying to do is jus…

Good luck proving in a court what he was trying to do though.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#316

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #121
cameldrv wrote: post #74

I’ve seen a lot of people on the internet over the years say things like “the government can’t make x illegal, it’s just y.” For example, the government can’t make wiping your phone at the border illegal, it’s just punching four numbers into your phone, just like a pin, only a different four numbers, which could just have well been your pin. U.S. law though is highly non-autistic and what you were trying to do is jus…

"U.S. law though is highly non-autistic" hilarious but also another point to emphasize is how truly depressing American courts often are. Take the right to a jury. It sounds noble in theory. But when they say judged by your peers they don't mean your actual peers. It's people who couldn't get out of jury duty. Prosecutors have high success rates. Federal prosecutor success rate is over > 90%. Studies of jury psycholo…

Some of us report for jury duty just itching to nullify something. Don't you? Checks and balances...

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#317

Post by hinata08 »

DanHulton wrote: post #65

If your threat model means you can’t afford for border security to view your device, wipe the damn thing yourself before crossing the border and restore it from an encrypted online backup on the other side. You’re just carrying a blank phone that you intend to set up and use later, and they can’t force you to install your backup onto a phone. Now, this is sus as hell, and you’ll probably draw all kinds of extra atten…

The french cybersecurity agency (ANSSI) used to share leaflets to tell you to do just that. The US government wasn't named, but it's part of the ones that like to do some economic intelligence and no euro who read the news would trust it more than a banana republic when it comes to crossing the border.

Now having a corporate device with little data is no longer outstanding. Everything is in the cloud these days.

As for personal devices, you can explain you're taking a dumb cheap laptop for your holiday as you're working on a desktop PC at home. You're not taking your entire house when you're on a trip, just a laptop to check tourism information and post blog posts

I myself bought a crap laptop on ebay to shove it in bags and backpacks and go to conferences and not be sad the day it's broken.

but above all, he's a citizen so shouldn't care about looking "suspect". He has a right, not a privilege, to cross that border. They can explain a judge how he looked sus if they really want to search his home.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#318

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

8note wrote: post #308
SoftTalker wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is as it should be.

no way! it should be about 50% conviction rate so that juries dont go in with non-evidence that the case is good because the feds thought it should go to court

That would be a nice outcome but whose responsibility would you make it to encourage it? Judges and juries should not grade on a curve. Prosecutors shouldn't waste taxpayer money chasing convictions that are out of reach. There's nobody with access to that calibration dimetion.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#320

Post by sire-vc »

TheTaytay wrote: post #237
sire-vc wrote: post #226

To everyone who thinks this is somehow a violation of rights: if you were being questioned by border officers, and were asked 'Sir could you please open your suitcase', and you pressed a button that caused it to burst into flames, there isn't a country in the entire world that wouldn't arrest you on the spot. Why would 'wipe a phone when officer requests it opened' be treated any differently? Suspicious behaviour is…

Right, but by that rationale, it’s also suspicious to say “no” when they ask if they can open your suitcase. Or decline to tell them where the key is. Or ask to speak to your lawyer first. Or refuse to tell them what is in the suitcase. Or lock the suitcase in the first place. And I want to live in a society where those behaviors are protected. (1password has a “traveling” mode that wipes it of sensitive passwords be…

If they ask to open my suitcase and I say 'no' that is suspicious. I've done a lot of travelling and have been questioned more than once: being candid and transparent has always been prudent.
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