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The Fedora 45 Sausage Factory

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Re: The Fedora 45 Sausage Factory

#21

Post by supakeen »

WesolyKubeczek wrote: post #16

> Every build starts from a clean room. You can never get a different result because someone installed something on the builder last week. At least 6 years ago, this was not entirely true: a package happened to build only because, by happy accident, the builder had a dependency installed by something else. Since the dependency was not in its Build-Requires:, the build would fail in COPR, which really used a clean roo…

Mmm, COPR and Koji I think use the same mock configs but someone else would have to confirm that :)

It's definitely possible that one of a packages build dependencies pulls in something that a package /should/ depend on and then when it drops it suddenly the build fails. That's why I think we mostly want 'autogenerated' BuildRequires nowadays that are generated based on the upstream source or packaging format to make that less of a figuring out excercise.

Re: The Fedora 45 Sausage Factory

#22

Post by unethical_ban »

root-parent wrote: post #13
robmusial wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably being downvoted and flagged because it's off topic to the post and adds no substance which is against site rules.

Its not off topic, as reply to the comment, the post is replying.

It's absolutely off-topic to moan about systemd on every post about Linux.

If there was a complaint about how systemd complicated builds and tests in a specific way the commenter could name, that'd be valid. Just finger-wagging is tiring after how many, 10 years?

Re: The Fedora 45 Sausage Factory

#23

Post by dralley »

root-parent wrote: post #8
einpoklum wrote: post #4

[flagged]

[flagged]

The systemd init isn't half an operating system any more than the coreutils "ls" utility is half a userspace. The systemd project has many different components but they're independent, they are not all literally part of the init system.

Re: The Fedora 45 Sausage Factory

#24

Post by root-parent »

rogerrogerr wrote: post #11
root-parent wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And social media and fast food...does not mean its good for you...

I’m out of the loop on this, not trying to ignite a holy war, but what’s the gist of the anti-systemd stance?

Before systemd I had Redhat machines with 3 to 4 years of uptime, and now you need to restart Linux after updates....while Windows people rarely and they laugh at you...

Re: The Fedora 45 Sausage Factory

#25

Post by root-parent »

temp0826 wrote: post #19
root-parent wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I think the systemd people state that it is more than an init system, maybe your expectation of it needs to be adjusted. "systemd is a software suite for system and service management on Linux built to unify service configuration and behavior across Linux distributions." One of the great things about Linux is that you can always choose a distro that fits your ideals (or whatever else).

[dead]

Re: The Fedora 45 Sausage Factory

#27

Post by root-parent »

lutoma wrote: post #26
einpoklum wrote: post #4

[flagged]

One of the best things to happen to the Linux ecosystem in a long time.

The best example of suck, and that forced you to restart Linux machines after an update, something that was not the case before... you little ducklings...

https://suckless.org/sucks/systemd/

https://without-systemd.org/wiki/index_php/Arguments_against...

Re: The Fedora 45 Sausage Factory

#29

Post by einpoklum »

dralley wrote: post #23
root-parent wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The systemd init isn't half an operating system any more than the coreutils "ls" utility is half a userspace. The systemd project has many different components but they're independent, they are not all literally part of the init system.

You're the one who brought up init systems. Like you said, systemd is a huge project; an init system is just one of its components.

> he systemd project has many different components but they're independent

They _are_ dependent. It's one codebas, and even if you somehow separated it - you would still only have systemd-specific, systemd-dependent replacements for _actual_ independent components.

They all depend on systemd and won't work with anything else, nor on any other operating system either.

Re: The Fedora 45 Sausage Factory

#30

Post by einpoklum »

unethical_ban wrote: post #22
root-parent wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not off topic, as reply to the comment, the post is replying.

It's absolutely off-topic to moan about systemd on every post about Linux. If there was a complaint about how systemd complicated builds and tests in a specific way the commenter could name, that'd be valid. Just finger-wagging is tiring after how many, 10 years?

We moan about Microsoft's horrid choices with its operating choices, already for, what, let's say 40 years now? 45? When they cut it out, start using standards, stop forcing crap onto their users (not all of Windows is crap; a lot of it is quite solid), stop with the spying and surveillance, and of course make the code FOSS, then we'll stop the moaning.

It's similar for systemd. It's a poor architectural choice and it needs to be undone. And that's ignoring the personal drama surrounding it over the years which, indeed, needs to be let go by now.

As for topicality: This post is about the "sausage" that is a distribution. Following this metaphor and mentioning a problem with a certain kind of sausage is on-topic.

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