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Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

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Re: Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

#381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with the Modi and Hindutva project almost entirely, not only politically, but on a personal level coming from a minority community (Christian) in India. However, India is in what basically amounts to a perpetual state of war with Pakistan and has always been this way. India rarely agresses Pakistan and Pakistani terror groups do operate with seeming impunity in India (Pakistan doesn't even maintain a 'no-f…

I find it telling you blame India's lack of modernization on Pakistan. A reflection of the times. Maybe dismantle the caste system first. You need a civil rights movement. This is India's biggest hurdle but it seems too ingrained in the society. All peoples should have the same opportunity, but the structure of power in India likes the way things are. Next work on how you treat women.

Hmm... I said nothing of modernization; I was talking about Indias police state tendencies. These are orthogonal issues. Indians lack of economic development is due to severely lacking general government funded education and over regulation.

As countries such as Norway and China show, you can have development with or without a police state. The issues have nothing to do with each other

Re: Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

#382
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Largely uncited and generalised exposition of Bangladeshi's misses other factors which could be involved in their decision towards distrust of India. It's reasonable to distrust a neighboring country with distinct interest, even if they went to war for you, sure. You don't owe them anything. Similarly, it's actually also normal for India to have concerns about illegal migration, similar to Europe, America, Australi…

> Neither the Jews nor the Parsis nor the Christians ever made such an argument. The argument that Jews need their own state specifically in the area between Lebanon, Egypt, and Syria is integral to Israel’s politics and history.

This has nothing to do with India. This is an argument the British and some European states made. India iirc recognizes both Palestine and Israel and most Indians are skeptical of Zionism, including the Christians. Once again American politics don't map cleanly here.

Re: Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

#383
post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with the Modi and Hindutva project almost entirely, not only politically, but on a personal level coming from a minority community (Christian) in India. However, India is in what basically amounts to a perpetual state of war with Pakistan and has always been this way. India rarely agresses Pakistan and Pakistani terror groups do operate with seeming impunity in India (Pakistan doesn't even maintain a 'no-f…

>people in the West don't understand how awful radical Islam is Do you remember that time two dozen or so years ago when a couple buildings collapsed in NYC? After some planes rammed into them?

And that is relatively benign compared to the constant barrage of foiled or successful terror attacks that India faces. Also, no one really cared when America went forward with a giant war of aggression against those people America labeled possible perpetrators

Re: Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

#384
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Largely uncited and generalised exposition of Bangladeshi's misses other factors which could be involved in their decision towards distrust of India. India's initial decisions need not be merely humanitarian but also political. https://scroll.in/article/1081784/why-are-bangladeshis-turni... . This article explains that it's due to an increasingly unequal interactions as sowing distrust. Explaining the Hindutva moment…

> Largely uncited and generalised exposition of Bangladeshi's misses other factors which could be involved in their decision towards distrust of India. It's reasonable to distrust a neighboring country with distinct interest, even if they went to war for you, sure. You don't owe them anything. Similarly, it's actually also normal for India to have concerns about illegal migration, similar to Europe, America, Australi…

You are collapsing different propositions into one:

There is anti-Hindu persecution in Bangladesh and Pakistan. Therefore Bangladeshi distrust of India is mainly religious. Therefore Hindutva is essentially a defensive reaction rather than a political movement.

I accept the first proposition. The others do not follow from it.

Bangladesh has entirely intelligible state-to-state grievances with India, unresolved Teesta water sharing, killings at the border, Indian political rhetoric portraying Bangladeshis as demographic threats, economic asymmetry and India’s perceived support for Sheikh Hasina and none of that makes Islamist propaganda imaginary. It means your claim that religion is the main explanation requires evidence rather than assertion. AP, among others, identifies both Teesta and lethal border enforcement as serious bilateral disputes [0].

India’s enormous contribution in 1971 also does not place Bangladesh under permanent political obligation. Bangladeshis fought the liberation war and India provided strategic assistance. Countries can remain grateful for historical aid while opposing a neighbour’s present policies. And Bangladesh has hardly forgotten Pakistan’s crimes: in 2025 it was still formally demanding an apology and financial settlement from Pakistan over 1971 [1]. That is rather different from your “bhai-bhai now” potrayal.

Similarly, describing the CAA as humanitarian does not answer the objection. A true persecution-based refugee law would ask whether an applicant was persecuted. The CAA instead adds to the broader co-relation over actual criteria they need to look for and preselects six religion [2], excluding groups such as persecuted Ahmadis and non-theists. Making religion the statutory filter is the part being criticised.

The portrayal of Savarkar as a benign humanitarian who simply snapped in response to Muslim extremism is not rationalising the fact after the incident. His 1923 Hindutva formulation made India’s status as both fatherland and holy land a criterion of national belonging, thereby excluding Muslims and Christians from the Hindu nation. That is an articulated political ideology, and not a reflex to witnessing extremism.

> "A HINDU means a person who regards this land of BHARATVARSHA, from the Indus to the Seas as his Father-Land as well as his Holy-Land that is the cradle land of his religion."

> Many a Mohammedan community in Kashmir and other parts of India as well as the Christians in South India observe our caste rules to such an extent as to marry generally within the pale of their castes alone; yet, it is clear that though their original Hindu blood is thus almost unaffected by an alien adulteration, yet they cannot be called Hindus in the sense in which that term is actually understood, because, we Hindus are bound together not only by the tie of the love we bear to a common.

From: https://archive.org/stream/essentials-of-hindutva-veer-savar...

I'm not sure how Christians persecuted Sarvakar to cause him to not consider them worthy of belonging here. Although their rhetoric has indeed not been anti-Christian later given we are a minority.

> Not that I'm some expert, but I can report personal on-the-ground experiences.

Your claim that Jews “never made such an argument” makes the selectiveness more apparent. Zionism was organised as a Jewish political movement advocating a Jewish homeland and eventually a Jewish state in Palestine [3]. This does not make Zionism, Hindutva and the Muslim League identical movements, but it disproves the universal claim made. Were you to narrow it after the correction to “Jews specifically within India”, that would move the goalposts. Different minorities, occupying different demographic and political positions, unsurprisingly did not all develop identical political movements. Their differing outcomes do not prove that Muslim political mobilisation was uniquely theological while every other form of nationalism was historically intelligible. Hindu nationalism is granted an historical defence that it's adherents were provoked and driven towards it by Muslim extremism. Bangladeshi and Muslim politics, meanwhile, are stripped of political context and reduced to religion. If historical insecurity and persecution are relevant when explaining Hindutva, then border killings, water disputes, political interference and support for an authoritarian government are also relevant when explaining Bangladeshi distrust. You cannot treat context as explanatory when it excuses your side and as irrelevant when it complicates your account of the other.

Likewise, saying that Americans cannot understand Islamist extremism is rhetorical but not grounded. The United States was the target of the September 11 attacks, and the 9/11 Commission documented al-Qaeda’s development, declaration of war against the United States and execution of those attacks [4]. That does not make every American an expert on Islamism, but that is exactly the point: neither nationality nor proximity automatically establishes expertise. Asking where someone comes from rather than answering their evidence is a genetic fallacy, evaluating a claim through its origin instead of its reasoning. The special pleading lies in treating your own South Asian identity as evidence while treating somebody else’s identity as grounds for disqualification.

So asking whether someone is American, South Asian or Indian Christian does not resolve anything. A person outside India can misunderstand India, and a person within India can be misinformed about it. The relevant question is still whether the account is supported by evidence. Personal experience may provide useful evidence, but it cannot substitute for demonstrating causation. “I have been there” is not evidence that every Bangladeshi grievance is secretly religious.

Your appeal to on-the-ground experience is also less helpful than you suggest. The student protests in India provide a fairly direct example. Indian television did not report the same events from a same point, a review found that Republic, News18, ABP and DD News largely changed the protesters’ actual demands with narratives about conspiracies, Pakistan, Nepal and national security, while police violence against protesters nearly disappeared from their coverage [5] while AP seemed to have a much coverage of the police violence, and the HRW [6], [7].

[0]: https://apnews.com/article/india-bangladesh-energy-developme... [1]: https://apnews.com/article/bangladesh-pakistan-relations-has... [2]: https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-briefing-notes/2019/12/press-... [3]: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/postwar-re... [4]: https://www.9-11commission.gov/report/ [5]: https://www.newslaundry.com/2026/07/21/nepal-reference-pak-l... [6]: https://apnews.com/article/india-cockroach-protests-memes-sa... [7]: https://www.hrw.org/news/2026/07/23/india-excessive-force-us...

Re: Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

#385
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what is it with this denial of the existence of India prior to 1947. If people were specific and said that they were referring to the Republic of India as the successor state to British-controlled India, then it would at least make some sense. Otherwise it sounds completely insane. If India was invented 79 years ago, then you need to explain the various East India companies established in the 1600s, and all…

There was no unified political entity prior to 1947---technically, 26 January 1950---because it took that long for Sardal Patel's program of political unification of sovereign princely states to conclude, so that the now-unified political entity would govern itself under common constitutional, and common law, with democratic universal franchise. The East India Company, and then the British Raj, held power because the…

The idea of a Westphalian nation state is foreign to South Asia until 1947. Before that there was your local patil and whatever clan you belonged to. Even Indian princely states had no clean separation before the British insisted on clean borders.

You're applying modern standards to a time and place where they would have been incomprehensible

Re: Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

#386
post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There was no unified political entity prior to 1947 There have been many (empires, not modern, Westphalian nation-states), but the British managed to create the largest yet. Pakistan was carved out of British India on Muslim and non-Muslim lines. > Who agreed to the legal terms? The rulers of the sovereign princely states and kingdoms. Sovereign in name, but vassals nonetheless. > Our very collective identity was c…

I'm sorry what, Hindu is not an identity?

Honestly not really. Hindu was the widely used demonym to refer to any Indian before Hindu nationalists decided to turn it into a religious designation. To be a follower of the Hindu religion meant that you followed some set of practices that originated in India. There was no requirement that they be the same standard set.

Modern day Hinduism is a post-hoc reconstruction. That's not to say Indian religious beliefs and doctrines don't exist -- they do. There are just a wide variety of them and they deserve their own mentions.

Re: Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

#387
post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if someone is sent to Guantanamo, they're actually sent to Cuba and Cuba chooses to put them in Guantanamo?

Such are anomalies. Do you know of a specific US-owned camp in Mexico?

No, why would I? You didn't need to know the staff rota at Dachau to know the government was doing bad things, way back then.

Re: Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

#388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing that happens whenever your flight gets diverted to South Korea and you have condoms, or Indonesia and you have legal weed, or to Australia and you have a pineapple. Which is that it depends on the mood of the person in charge. Either you get to keep it, or it's confiscated and destroyed, or you go to jail, or you go to a firing squad. We can guess which is more likely in each country. Indonesia almost alwa…

That sounds absolutely terrifying and makes me not want to travel anywhere ever again.

Welcome to the world. If someone wants to shoot you, they can just do that. If that someone is a government, they won't suffer any consequences. There have been flights deliberately diverted by the country they were traveling over because they didn't like one of the people onboard, and that person was arrested by that country upon landing. I think the USA does this most frequently but it's also happened in CIS countries and Asian countries.

Re: Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

#389
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan has no trash cans. (reaction to the japanese subway attacks) Returning to the US from japan you notice. Japanese bathrooms don't have trash cans, so no paper towels. In the US, the bathrooms have trash cans overflowing with paper towel waste and it is quite a difference.

To add some context, the removal of trash cans accelerated prior to the hosting of the Tokyo Olympics. The municipal government was concerned about trash possibly overflowing from the can, thereby ruining the appearance of the streets. Meanwhile, Japanese subway stations still have trash cans, which are only blocked when foreign dignitaries visit the country. It doesn't seem authorities are reacting to the subway att…

I would never do this as a visitor to another country - but if this happened where I lived I would advocate mass littering until it was repealed. Just drop the trash where the canvases to be. If you could get even a single percent population doing this in a large city it would snowball and it would be over in 30 days tops.

Re: Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

#390
post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such are anomalies. Do you know of a specific US-owned camp in Mexico?

No, why would I? You didn't need to know the staff rota at Dachau to know the government was doing bad things, way back then.

> No, why would I?

Because your original comment was:

> Weren't some of the German tourists last year sent to an ICE camp in Mexico?

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