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If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

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571–580 of 719 posts

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#571

The answer, of course, is that the taste-making apparatus inside the typical tech company is now entirely imposters (non-technical, non-power-users), who continue to LARP as visionaries. The people who notice broken or degraded behavior (devs and power users) and conceive of good designs are not in charge of what goes into the product. So you shouldn't expect it to get better, only to continuously change so that the…

> The solution is to gut your product org, replace management with leading engineers, and hire some of your most fanatic users. It’s not surprising that this sentiment is popular on a message board filled with engineers but I’m not so convinced by it. Nor do I think the current state of tech companies is acceptable, to be clear. But there needs to be some level of management outside of the engineers themselves. A lot…

I'm not totally convinced by OP's whole point, but I want to point out an issue with this argument of yours:

> lot of talented lead engineers I know are terrible people managers, or ineffective project managers.

A lot of people who can read are also terrible manager, but that's not an argument to put illiterate people in charge. Not every engineer has what it takes to be a good manager, and that's fine since you don't need this many manager anyway, but I'd argue that for a management jobs, understanding the craft of the people you're managing is as important as literacy, because the most important role of a manager is make decisions and you cannot make good decisions about things you don't understand.

That being said, engineering is only half the takes in software, the other half being Design and you cannot have a manager that is merely an engineer without design skills (otherwise your product is going to have the user-friendliness of Arch Linux).

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s easy: a proper emergency. Let’s say you’re controlling a piece of machinery with an app in the background and the machine starts on fire. Wouldn’t it make sense for the app to steal focus so it can show you some alarms (in addition to audible alarms which you may not hear because they’re in another room).

Having actually worked with industrial machinery, the proper UI for this is 1) unimpeded view of machine and 2) big red physical emergency stop button. If you're relying on focus stealing or popups or notifications to tell you when your equipment is on fire, you're doing it wrong.

Are you not aware that remote monitoring software exists?

Your option is also not mutually exclusive, you can have your red buttons for local workers. Is redundancy not "proper UI"?

(I'm amazed how people stubbornly refuse to imagine the most trivial of use cases in this discussion.)

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#573
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My expectation is described in the comment you replied to and side comments Microwave's ding is also bad UI, especially when it's repetitive as it's just useless noise. But even the first ding - what value does it have if you already have exactly the same notification category - audio cue - built right there in the process: the machine noise disappears when it stops working.

Waiting for noise to stop is less reliable because of how brains work, and also has a much smaller range. The microwave ding is useful.

Brains work just fine and your typical kitchen/apartment range is small enough, but in general - the trade-off between comfort and reliability is not something you can resolve for others

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#574

The answer, of course, is that the taste-making apparatus inside the typical tech company is now entirely imposters (non-technical, non-power-users), who continue to LARP as visionaries. The people who notice broken or degraded behavior (devs and power users) and conceive of good designs are not in charge of what goes into the product. So you shouldn't expect it to get better, only to continuously change so that the…

> The solution is to gut your product org, replace management with leading engineers, and hire some of your most fanatic users. It’s not surprising that this sentiment is popular on a message board filled with engineers but I’m not so convinced by it. Nor do I think the current state of tech companies is acceptable, to be clear. But there needs to be some level of management outside of the engineers themselves. A lot…

[deleted]

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, this 100%. When I see a "pending update" notification or icon somewhere, the first thing I think is "I don't want to update, they're just going to break something new". I _hate_ updates now. Doesn't matter what software it is, with the small exception of video games. (Except Dead By Daylight. Behavior, the devs, are the most hilariously incompetent devs on the planet, but at least their incompetence is confined…

The only software I've been excited about an update for in years has been games, that seems like the only category where devs actually add features people are excited about. For example, the latest KCD2 patch added a fun but brief new quest [0]. Not universal though. Besides your example, even for single player games patches can be basically malicious. I've had Fallout 4 locked on updates for like 3 years at this poi…

Lots of games’ updates break popular mods, introduce launchers and/or break linux compatibility and/or online mode, remove music with expired licenses, censor something and increase system requirements.

Sadly we’re way past the point where games became like all the other software in that regard

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#576

The answer, of course, is that the taste-making apparatus inside the typical tech company is now entirely imposters (non-technical, non-power-users), who continue to LARP as visionaries. The people who notice broken or degraded behavior (devs and power users) and conceive of good designs are not in charge of what goes into the product. So you shouldn't expect it to get better, only to continuously change so that the…

The real.answer is that people stopped making things with care and genuine interest. Everything should be delivered in the fastest way possible, in the shortest time possible, on the tightest budget possible. This is a recipe for creating a mess, in which AI has now pushed the limits and we are seeing how failure is now per-default embedded and shipped to users, who are now beta-testing products continuously.

We have been beta-testing the outcome of incompetent software production processes long before AI. But LLMs do accelerate the slop production. And if what you're shipping is going to be a bloated buggy mess anyway, then LLMs really do make you more "productive".

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#577
post #386

For me, the problem was never the writing of the code. Building something takes care and rigor. Software development got where it is through years of accumulated practice: habits first, then safeguards, then structures that had actually been proven. Now people set the code aside and just describe their problem, and they have no real sense of what comes back, because nobody can review output produced that fast. Nobody…

If furniture was still built like it was in the past you'd have about 2 pieces of it unless you were fabulously wealthy. This is pretty true for software, how much have you actually paid for recently? FOSS isn't free either, a massive amount of time and coordination is required to make good software there too and few are willing to give it.

[dead]

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

KDE has a much older and richer history than windows 7. It’s been trying to be a safe harbor for Windows users to land in Linux for a long time.

What they really meant is it's like Windows if Windows didn't enshittify. I don't understand the plasma desktop though. Why can't I just drag a shortcut to the desktop.

> Why can't I just drag a shortcut to the desktop.

You can...? I tried dragging from Dolphin, Kickoff and the Task Manager onto my desktop, and in all three cases it worked.

Granted, there's a moment of confusion having to choose between copying or linking, as offered by the context menu that pops up, but...

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#579
post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you presume to tell me how I perform a task? Why do you keep presuming you can make up your own example when arguing about a different one??? The original premise "depends entirely on what you're switching from and to and for what reason", so of course if you change your conditions you'll have different outcome re. focus stealing! > You have been arguing that it should No, you've been missing the point this…

If computers could read thoughts and 100% reliably determine when the user is done with their current task and would like to switch back to the other application, then yes, it would definitely make sense to implement the functionality you're describing. In the real world, where it's impossible for the OS to distinguish between the "You stopped checking in the first 0.5 sec while the app took 1 sec to start" scenario…

If perfect is not possible let's do nothing? Your approach is likely the reason for the current bad global rule. You want to replace it with another bad global rule.

But in the real world I'd use proxy conditions to arrive at a rate of correct guesses that's satisfactory for me just like with everything else with computers (even basic mouse clicks), not use your total "safe" ban (safety has a trade-off, you can't resolve that universally)

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#580
I have a TV in my Google Home that I cannot remove. It says it's offline and when I try to remove if it says "communication error". Yes, I know, I stopped using that TV 5 years ago! Normally, I haven't seen such bugs from Google, but lately it's been getting worse.
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