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If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

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Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#261

Post by eviks »

jagged-chisel wrote: post #259
eviks wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> while I'm still checking No, you're committing the exact same error again. You stopped checking in the first 0.5 sec while the app took 1 sec to start. If you're not capable of imagining a situation where this happens like some other commenters, that's ok, but that's a different argument. > I don't get it, are you not capable of imagining a situation where You're the one deciding that!!! That's what a properly desi…

> You stopped checking in the first 0.5 sec Why do you presume to tell me how I perform a task? Do you know how many files I have to scan through to check? Do you know how far the Finder scroll has to move to show me what I want? Maybe it takes a glance. Maybe it takes ten seconds. I don't particularly care what kind of activity you might be imagining, but nothing that steals focus should be happening without my cons…

> Why do you presume to tell me how I perform a task?

Why do you keep presuming you can make up your own example when arguing about a different one??? The original premise "depends entirely on what you're switching from and to and for what reason", so of course if you change your conditions you'll have different outcome re. focus stealing!

> You have been arguing that it should

No, you've been missing the point this whole time.

> I don't know where this came from, but it's not in my comments

It is, I suggested you imagine the case where you'd like the change of focus to happen in response to some conditions you find favorable, yet several times you faield to address it as is and kept bringing up different conditiosn.

> I think your emotional response to this discussion has you conflating commenters.

I think if you're that bad at reading literal text you shouldn't attempt at trying to read emotional state of that author.

> If you want to advocate for configuration to allow focus stealing that's fine

So why do you keep arguing that it's not fine because you can't imagine a situation where it is?

> But you've been arguing as if it's silly that anyone would want it any other way than you.

Nope, that's you misreading again. I have no issue with people who want a dumbed down "never steal" config.

Maybe the silly part here is people ostensibly supporting computers respecting user choices arguing against being able to better configure your computer to respect user choices.

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#263

Post by cyberax »

ndriscoll wrote: post #115
frameset wrote: post #37

> I opened Slack on macOS, the icon kept bouncing in the dock for a few seconds. I got impatient, switched to Ghostty, and started typing. Just then, the Slack window appeared, stole focus from Ghostty and the git pull command was sent to the group chat. One of my absolute favourite features on KDE Plasma with Wayland is the global setting to control what can steal focus. It works wonderfully, and I always miss it wh…

Yeah the obvious answer to software getting worse is to switch to FOSS. Use Linux/KDE. It's been great for a long time and only ever gets better. It's as if Windows 7 just continued to slowly iterate and add useful polish. NixOS has a longstanding issue where library loading (and therefore program start, particularly GUI programs that load a lot) is n^2, but programs still all start in ~1 second or less on my n100 mi…

> Yeah the obvious answer to software getting worse is to switch to FOSS. Use Linux/KDE.

Not an option if you have to deal with iOS ecosystem of crapps.

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#265

Post by chongli »

ghusto wrote: post #166
eviks wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would that global app ban help? You do want the application to steal focus when necessary. It's just in this case the user has made the decision to not wait for startup and switch to another app. Aggravating step - he was typing. Is this workflow part of the Kwin settings? It's not interrupting typing part of the settings?

I can not think of a single scenario where stealing focus would be desirable. Also, the presumption that I'm going to wait around for 5+ seconds whilst an opens is unrealistic.

That’s easy: a proper emergency.

Let’s say you’re controlling a piece of machinery with an app in the background and the machine starts on fire. Wouldn’t it make sense for the app to steal focus so it can show you some alarms (in addition to audible alarms which you may not hear because they’re in another room).

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#266

Post by throwawayffffas »

StilesCrisis wrote: post #110
Jtarii wrote: post #21

Software quality has been declining for long before AI was a thing. Microsoft didn't need AI to make windows 11 as bad as it is. The incentives are large companies are fundamentally not in align with making high quality software people actually enjoy interacting with.

In fact, I am pretty sure most of the examples he lists predate AI. Mac OS apps stealing focus certainly does. Horrible laggy car infotainment systems--hard to say without any specifics, but I've certainly had the same experience pre-LLMs. I've navigated the LG website pre-LLMs and it was busted then too.

The complaint is not the focus stealing the complaint is the lag of the chat application starting. So the problem in this case is electron and all the shit that slack has bolted on on startup because "who cares about start up time, everyone has it on all day."

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#267

Post by 100percentjake »

frameset wrote: post #37

> I opened Slack on macOS, the icon kept bouncing in the dock for a few seconds. I got impatient, switched to Ghostty, and started typing. Just then, the Slack window appeared, stole focus from Ghostty and the git pull command was sent to the group chat. One of my absolute favourite features on KDE Plasma with Wayland is the global setting to control what can steal focus. It works wonderfully, and I always miss it wh…

This is one of the most consistently annoying behaviors I experience in macOS, and I feel so validated seeing others express this as well.

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#268

Post by valicord »

eviks wrote: post #261
jagged-chisel wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You stopped checking in the first 0.5 sec Why do you presume to tell me how I perform a task? Do you know how many files I have to scan through to check? Do you know how far the Finder scroll has to move to show me what I want? Maybe it takes a glance. Maybe it takes ten seconds. I don't particularly care what kind of activity you might be imagining, but nothing that steals focus should be happening without my cons…

> Why do you presume to tell me how I perform a task? Why do you keep presuming you can make up your own example when arguing about a different one??? The original premise "depends entirely on what you're switching from and to and for what reason", so of course if you change your conditions you'll have different outcome re. focus stealing! > You have been arguing that it should No, you've been missing the point this…

If computers could read thoughts and 100% reliably determine when the user is done with their current task and would like to switch back to the other application, then yes, it would definitely make sense to implement the functionality you're describing.

In the real world, where it's impossible for the OS to distinguish between the "You stopped checking in the first 0.5 sec while the app took 1 sec to start" scenario and the "you're still busy with the current task and don't want to switch to the other app yet" scenario, the safe choice is always to not steal the focus because the cost of switching too early is significantly higher than the cost of not switching.

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#269

Post by grim_io »

frameset wrote: post #37

> I opened Slack on macOS, the icon kept bouncing in the dock for a few seconds. I got impatient, switched to Ghostty, and started typing. Just then, the Slack window appeared, stole focus from Ghostty and the git pull command was sent to the group chat. One of my absolute favourite features on KDE Plasma with Wayland is the global setting to control what can steal focus. It works wonderfully, and I always miss it wh…

That would only happen if you were not looking at the text you are typing. A-Are you looking DOWN ON THE KEYBOARD?!
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