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Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

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Re: Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

#171

Post by sophrosyne42 »

lava_pidgeon wrote: post #36
petcat wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something like this would be basically impossible in the US, and it wouldn't even matter what kind of administration tried it. The US government doesn't even order ISPs to block websites because they run afoul of all kinds of 1st amendment litigation. They just have the FBI seize a domain after a court order. Honestly I would think something like this would come from the EU or UK. UK is trying to ban VPNs, EU is tryi…

Oh boy , this is American exceptionalism at its finest. The US has by far the most authoritarian government of all mentioned entities. Really you should protest against your government.

Most europeans love their chains, they call it freedom as a coping mechanism

Re: Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

#172

Post by iamnothere »

close04 wrote: post #158
iamnothere wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on how many terminals there are and whether or not the neighborhoods they are in are sympathetic to the operators. It’s very easy to move them. Resistance against totalitarianism is a duty.

I wasn’t thinking of totalitarianism but rather a country objecting to Starlink operating on its territory. This is why I brought up Berlin and fines, not the secret police breaking in your house at night. After living under one of those totalitarian regimes, all Incan say is that everything sounds easy in an HN comment typed from the safety of a democratic society.

National firewalls and other such things are tools of totalitarianism. Except possibly in wartime, or if they are causing harmful interference, or if Starlink refuses to pay taxes, I don’t really see a good argument against things like Starlink.

Re: Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

#173

Post by paxys »

anon291 wrote: post #157
paxys wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s funny because the Indian independence movement was a failure. Indians protested non-violently and sometimes violently for over a hundred years, and British control (first through the East India company and then directly by the crown) kept increasing with every passing year, eventually encompassing the entire subcontinent. India eventually gained independence because colonialism in general was not politically and…

People greatly misunderstand the Indian independence movement. The early Indian activists merely wanted India to have a devolved legislature like present-day Scotland and Wales, or like Canada and Australia used to have. It was relatively late that anyone really wanted independence. I think many of them still wanted to be a constituent state of the UK. People always forget that Gandhi's first actions as a 'nationalis…

Call it freedom or independence or autonomy or dominion or whatever else you want, it doesn’t change the underlying point. Indians wanted it, and Britain denied it. In fact they denied it quite emphatically and violently. Eventually the outcome was decided by geopolitical realities, not a bunch of people shouting slogans.

Re: Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

#174

Post by etiennebausson »

mcherm wrote: post #55
lava_pidgeon wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh boy , this is American exceptionalism at its finest. The US has by far the most authoritarian government of all mentioned entities. Really you should protest against your government.

What a mix! Yes, it is American exceptionalism (and quite foolish) to make the claim that "This could never happen in the US". No, the American government is NOT more authoritative than the UK in the way they handle freedom of websites. The grandparent comment is correct: the US government does not (currently) order ISPs to block specific websites. Yes, those in the US should protest the current government (many of u…

I think maybe there is more than one way to quantify authoritative.

Just looking at the percentage of the population in prison, or murders by cop per inhabitant, that are also good indicators of "repression", and the US might rate first worldwide.

Re: Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

#175

Post by transcriptase »

tavavex wrote: post #166
viktorcode wrote: post #76

> the app enables communication even during network restrictions and creates a substantial risk of misuse by anti-national elements, terrorist organisations, organised criminal groups and cyber criminals seeking to evade lawful detection and continue communication despite legally imposed restrictions. This mouthful boils down to exactly this: a form of communication not controlled by the government creates a risk for…

I wonder how long it's going to take until we have universal communication monitoring, including in real life. It's not an impossible technical challenge, it's just a question of time. Every spoken word recorded forever and scrutinized. After all forms of distant private communication fall, the spoken word will be the last one remaining. And all these arguments they're making apply to it, too.

That went live about a decade ago. Heck, a lot of the people who built it and maintain it are here on HN, each getting paid so well and contributing only so little that if they can even admit it to themselves, they would never do it publicly.

Re: Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

#176

Post by infinite_spin »

ifh-hn wrote: post #100
viktorcode wrote: post #76

> the app enables communication even during network restrictions and creates a substantial risk of misuse by anti-national elements, terrorist organisations, organised criminal groups and cyber criminals seeking to evade lawful detection and continue communication despite legally imposed restrictions. This mouthful boils down to exactly this: a form of communication not controlled by the government creates a risk for…

I'm not condoning this but what would you suggest they should be doing to keep people safe? I'm fairly sure whatever they do you'd likely be complaining about it. Glad to be wrong though.

How is private messaging causing people to become unsafe? If you're saying privacy = unsafe environment, then your right to privacy is meaningless.

Re: Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

#178

Post by inigyou »

tavavex wrote: post #166
viktorcode wrote: post #76

> the app enables communication even during network restrictions and creates a substantial risk of misuse by anti-national elements, terrorist organisations, organised criminal groups and cyber criminals seeking to evade lawful detection and continue communication despite legally imposed restrictions. This mouthful boils down to exactly this: a form of communication not controlled by the government creates a risk for…

I wonder how long it's going to take until we have universal communication monitoring, including in real life. It's not an impossible technical challenge, it's just a question of time. Every spoken word recorded forever and scrutinized. After all forms of distant private communication fall, the spoken word will be the last one remaining. And all these arguments they're making apply to it, too.

We already have that, except for half of real life.

Re: Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

#179

Post by inigyou »

em-bee wrote: post #167
gowld wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most nations with gun control apply gun control to the street police also.

most nations with gun control do not need people to protect themselves against police violence. that's the real problem here.

Only two countries in the world have police who don't carry guns in regular service. Those are UK and NZ. In all other developed countries, the police may carry a gun, but there is a thorough investigation if it is ever fired.

Re: Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

#180

Post by infinite_spin »

SoftTalker wrote: post #137
gruez wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And it's also cute when people imply the internet is unregulateable. There are plenty of tools that countries use to regulate internet traffic. They can require ISPs to DPI the traffic and block it. They can MITM traffic. They can shut off the internet entirely. They can throw people in jail. etc. I don't think there's any country that can keep a lid on the internet. The best they can do are leaky blocks (china's gf…

As I understand it, China's GFW is intentionally leaky, balancing as much control as they can get away with but not enough to forment open revolt. As with a lot of things, the best control is not total control.

except this implies total control, and a willingness to use that control to gaslight your citizens into believing they have some control
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