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I regret migrating to Codeberg

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Re: I regret migrating to Codeberg

#371

Post by rpdillon »

skydhash wrote: post #369
rpdillon wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we have a tool that can detect whether a project is majority LLM-written? This is an unenforceable rule, unless it's just coming down to vibes and they're going to decide what projects to ban based on their feelings.

> It is an unenforceable rule Are you sure? It's pretty easy to find telltale signs of LLM usage, like the CLAUDE.md file, the '.cursor' directory, the 'vim'-sized codebase done in a week.

That's just vibes. Measuring how much data someone uses is concrete and empirical. They are implementing TOS rules that are based on judgement and require a judge. Very different when implemented practically, especially in terms of effort on the part of the org. Quotas are automated, evicting projects is highly manual.

Re: I regret migrating to Codeberg

#372

Post by astrobe_ »

Defletter wrote: post #327
astrobe_ wrote: post #297

Codeberg already had relatively strong opinions before that; their Terms of Use also says: "the right to use the content for any purpose, including both commercial and non-commercial purposes" "Note, however, that the Creative Commons licences with Non-Commercial (NC) or No Derivatives (ND) restrictions are not licences for free cultural works and thus do not fulfil the licensing requirement" So yes, "the deciding fa…

It's always amusing to see people concern troll about slippery slopes as if Codeberg didn't already have requirements (some vibes based) for the repositories they host. But people hate change and will knee-jerk react to announcements like these. It reminds me of the absolute meltdowns people have over Rust in Linux (remember the hysteria when Rust became a hard dependency for apt?).

> people hate change

Not related, but this is an assumption one should automatically reject as soon as it comes to mind.

People do like change, when it is for the better. People have happily moved from SVN to Git, from Vi to Neovim, from Coke to Pepsi (find better examples yourself) etc... People may be emotional about change, but they are not stubborn (generally). Usually they just don't perceive the benefits of the new thing (or they are outweighed by the drawbacks for them). Sometimes "better" has a subjective part that you can't argue about, so you have to "agree to disagree". But it's better to disagree on an opinion than to assume that they don't like change.

Re: I regret migrating to Codeberg

#373

Post by rpdillon »

customguy wrote: post #356
rpdillon wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People downvote this kind of take because you're striking at the heart of the enforcement problem and also the definition of what a project that is majority built with AI really means. What they really want is to ascertain the amount of effort from a human that went into the project and they're using the percentage of code generated by an AI as a proxy metric. But it's a bad proxy, both because it doesn't capture hum…

> People downvote this kind of take because you're striking at the heart of the enforcement problem That's not your problem.

What conversation are you trying to have? I don't even use Codeberg; I've spent years thinking about how the idea behind rules manifests when those rules are actually put in place and enforced. I think a lot about second and third order effects. That's my interest here: an org decided to put these particular rules in place, and based on my experience, I don't think it's going to age well.

But I guess you're right, as far as you go: none of this is my problem. I'm just a curious observer.

Re: I regret migrating to Codeberg

#375

Post by cush »

chmod775 wrote: post #323
zelphirkalt wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you consciously choosing to completely ignore large parts of Codeberg's explanations, regarding the amount of traffic they get from one-man LLM shows, and additionally completely fail to consider the type of organization, that Codeberg is, in order to label this as merely virtue signaling?

> Are you consciously choosing to completely ignore Yes. Let me stop you right there: Yes, absolutely. Whatever they claim their reasons are, it's not my problem. I don't care. The last Codeberg story that popped up here just this week was something about them banning Bitcoin. At that pace you should worry whether you're next. Which is why my advice is: Avoid the headache. Go somewhere else.

>> Are you consciously choosing to completely ignore > Let me stop you right there: Yes

Reading this in text is unreasonably funny. Thanks for the chuckle

Re: I regret migrating to Codeberg

#376

Post by rpdillon »

bigfishrunning wrote: post #359
rpdillon wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what kind of people the maintainers are. Can you elaborate on this? It's new that we're judging what kind of people we're dealing with based on what tools they use.

I really meant -- are these maintainers passionate about the design and maintenance of their tools, are they trying to slop up a demo fast enough that some VC buys them out, is this project a goal in itself or the means to some other end, etc... Open source software that exists for its own sake is exceedingly rare, and understanding the goals of a community before becoming dependent on it is a good idea

OK! This makes sense, and I agree. But I don't think banning LLM usage gets us there. LLMs are going to be used for coding, whether anyone likes it or not. I think focusing on the effort and care that is put into the codebase is a good metric: LLM generated code that is reviewed by teams of professionals, for example, is a huge win, and should be encouraged.

I readily concede that there is a huge volume of inexperienced programmers generating crap, though.

It's basically Eternal September for programming.

Re: I regret migrating to Codeberg

#377

Post by hedora »

m4rtink wrote: post #364
infecto wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get tired of it because it just becomes a tit for tat war and you end up with these extremely polarized communities. Codeberg is not for me, I could never get over them keeping the anubis anime girls on, but it would be nice if open source communities were a bit more open. There will always be a line to draw but some of the current rules feel arbitrary.

The whole Fedora infrastructure shows the default cute Anubis character (while protecting said infrastructure from AI scrappers) & I don't see any problems with that. :)

Is there a bypass for those yet? Not all of the machines I have run it at a reasonable pace, so I'd like to just farm the challenge to some other machine.

My nice desktop that I use for C++/Rust/Formal Verification takes multiple minutes sometimes, and I'd rather not replace the motherboard over this, or figure out why it's not using the GPU/whatever.

OTOH, I have a MacBook with Apple's terrible window manager. It blows through it in a few seconds. The same is true of my ancient phone, and some newer low-power mini-pc's, etc.

Re: I regret migrating to Codeberg

#378

Post by andsoitis »

beepbooptheory wrote: post #365
andsoitis wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One helpful way to think about is to what extent your principles are rooted in emotions or rigidity, or whether your principles are rooted more in realism and practicality. Put differently: are you making decisions based on principles that are crafted with the goal of CHANGING the world? Or are you making decisions based on principles that are crafted to NAVIGATE a dynamic, fuzzy, ever-changing world?

In your mind, why are the second kinds of things here not "criteria" or "heuristics"? (Also you can enclose things in * to emphasize on this site btw. There is a little grey 'help' next to the comment box.)

> why are the second kinds of things here not "criteria" or "heuristics"?

I think you're asking why I call the heuristics for navigating the world "principles"?

Principles come in 3 distinct flavors:

a) Rule of conduct. The standard you hold yourself to regardless of circumstance or convenience. Examples can be honesty, fairness, loyalty, or non-violence.

b) Organizing idea in a field. General concept that explains or governs range of specific cases. They're not moral rules, they're explanatory or decision-making frameworks.

c) Foundational truth or law. Basic proposition that underlies a system of thought. E.g. conservation of energy is principle that isn't proven within the system but a foundation the rest of the system is built on. Axioms play the same role in logic or mathematics.

In this thread, I'm using principles in the (b) sense, whereas I think the author of the article and some of the sentiment in the discussion anchor on the (a) sense.

In practice, one has to find a balance you can live with between (a) and (b), since they can be in tension.

Re: I regret migrating to Codeberg

#379

Post by kstrauser »

jasonvorhe wrote: post #72

I'm still undecided if I want to self host either gitea or forgejo. Can someone who used both or is particularly experienced with one of them tell me which project to settle with? Most comparisons I found were all written with someone who didn't seem all that ideologically neutral on the matter. To my understanding forgejo (the gitea fork) is run by the people behind Codeberg whereas Codeberg is running a customised…

I threw my lot in with Forgejo. After the fork, most of the maintainers went along with it.

In any case, it has a FOSS license and can’t be restricted against certain uses the same way Codeberg is. By analogy, my own instance is way more restricted: only a couple of people are allowed to write to it at all.

Re: I regret migrating to Codeberg

#380

Post by layer8 »

Zambyte wrote: post #291
layer8 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are these plentiful alternatives? SourceHut also comes with “personal baggage”.

Just host your own git server, it's an afternoon project. Use other forges as mirrors.

I have been self-hosting Gitea since long before Forgejo existed, but I understood the parent to be talking about third-party hosting with a FOSS community around it.
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