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Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

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Re: Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

#161

Post by citrin_ru »

cbmuser wrote: post #50

It’s really only economics, there is simply no relevant market for mechanical cassette players that would justify the investment. I don’t think it’s true that the capabilities to make these devices are lost. There are still companies like ALPS that are capable of making the necessary parts. But in the end, the market is too small to justify any investments.

Modern economy cannot exists without economy of scale. It's unfortunate is that if you want something else than millions of other people the price likely will be prohibitive - small scale production is not viable economically, especially for high tech components and devices.

> I don’t think it’s true that the capabilities to make these devices are lost.

I think they are. Not all knowledge is captured in documentation and blueprints. A lot of knowledge existed only in brains of now retired people. And even blueprints are lost when companies go out of businesses.

Re: Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

#162

Post by bandrami »

trencedamp wrote: post #110
bandrami wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK I've got some rando Chinese product that looks pretty much exactly like a late-2000s iPod "classic" and has some fairly generic Android interface including a decent music player. I think it cost like $40.

I've bought a few for the kids but they generally have weird issues like sorting music in bizarre unpredictable ways (can't seem to get it to play an audiobook in order). There's no customer support, and they also break fairly easily

Yeah, it's definitely more of a consumable item than an asset, as the logistics guys would say.

Re: Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

#163

Post by mananaysiempre »

gyulai wrote: post #56
trencedamp wrote: post #13

This is a really interesting read. But it doesn't answer one question I have, which is why can't Sony or Apple or anyone else bring back decent MP3 players? None of this technology is lost, and there are plenty of small-time two bit no name players out there still making them, often in a much smaller, much slicker form factor than than the original digital Walkman or iPod. If I want to buy a new MP3 player, I have to…

> If I want to buy a new MP3 player, I have to buy something from a company I've never heard of with a terrible screen, use an old phone, or buy some sort of enthusiast audiophile flac player thing that costs way too much. I recently got the Shanling M0s. It runs its own OS and seems to me completely at parity with what MP3 players used to be back in the day; in fact I think it's the best one I've ever had, and I've…

The battery life’s reportedly kind of garbage, though, isn’t it? As it seems to be on all these devices. I understand this is partly due to overpowered output amplifiers (to support obscure headphones) and software decoding (to support obscure formats), but still, <15hr of playback is pitiful.

Re: Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

#164

Post by steveBK123 »

SpecialistK wrote: post #128
ezst wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would really love to try MD: besides the "tactileness" of it, the storage limits imposes to actively curate playlists and make compromises on how much/what music you can carry with you given the circumstances. An iPod classic already has so much storage available that this thought is secondary and you don't have to engage with your music to the same extent.

Absolutely, and that's something I've tried to highlight in the FAQs on the site - limitation breeds creativity. It makes you appreciate the media just a little bit more. One of the best places to have MD is in a car. You can quickly identify (by unique color or label) each disc, which is either a full album presented as the artist intended or a playlist you curated. There's no "shuffle all 5000 songs" or "here's a p…

The other place I've thought I'd like to go back to MD is just sitting in bed and listening to some music.

I don't want to fiddle with my phone and get blasted by light from the screen.

I don't want to swipe through an infinite list of all music known to man.

I don't want to wait for an app to update, page to load, song to buffer or pop-up upselling me to need to be dismissed.

I want to listen to music I own, on a device I own, which instantly responds when I press play. That's it.

Re: Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

#165

Post by wink »

I'm generally not zealous in either way of the good old time or everything old is bad...

But seriously, have your vinyl and be happy, I am buying CDs for home use (even in a car it got annoying fast).

But why would I ever go back to something huge, clunky, fragile like MCs (or MDs to a degree)? I'm not saying stop using a dedicated music player (although I've been team mobile phone for music (with mp3s) forever). But the only reason I see for exchangable media would be trading playlists with friends (I hardly did that with MCs or CDs, but ok) - but why not cheap small SD cards. Why do people want their Walkman back? I just don't get it.

Re: Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

#166

Post by Multicomp »

smackeyacky wrote: post #145
trencedamp wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I want something half the size of a phone. I don't need a giant screen, I just want a player that can do music or audiobooks and be light enough to run with. I find myself researching, trying to find the smallest lightest old phone that either has decent internal memory or a micro SD slot, but it's not easy. Most phones are massive compared to an iPod shuffle

The old HTC One M8 used to fill this niche but they might be too old to use on the daily any more. I’ve been thinking of digging mine out, the headphone output was great

Now there's a name I've not heard in a long time!

Yes the old box of obsolete smartphones and PDAs and datalogic falcon x3 pocket pcs waiting for me to do projects with them are why I can never justify buying even a20 dollar mp3 player.

Re: Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

#167

Post by Foobar8568 »

ramgine wrote: post #23
trencedamp wrote: post #13

This is a really interesting read. But it doesn't answer one question I have, which is why can't Sony or Apple or anyone else bring back decent MP3 players? None of this technology is lost, and there are plenty of small-time two bit no name players out there still making them, often in a much smaller, much slicker form factor than than the original digital Walkman or iPod. If I want to buy a new MP3 player, I have to…

Have you looked at fiio? They’ve been doing it a while and aren’t crazy expensive https://www.fiio.com/player https://a.co/d/055SGJE1

Fiio, Hiby, basically any chifi music player is a soc+android.

Re: Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

#168

Post by carlosjobim »

gyulai wrote: post #56
trencedamp wrote: post #13

This is a really interesting read. But it doesn't answer one question I have, which is why can't Sony or Apple or anyone else bring back decent MP3 players? None of this technology is lost, and there are plenty of small-time two bit no name players out there still making them, often in a much smaller, much slicker form factor than than the original digital Walkman or iPod. If I want to buy a new MP3 player, I have to…

> If I want to buy a new MP3 player, I have to buy something from a company I've never heard of with a terrible screen, use an old phone, or buy some sort of enthusiast audiophile flac player thing that costs way too much. I recently got the Shanling M0s. It runs its own OS and seems to me completely at parity with what MP3 players used to be back in the day; in fact I think it's the best one I've ever had, and I've…

Mine was great for a year until it stopped working out of nowhere, not turning on. The company told me they wouldn't help me in any way. And there seems to be no good alternatives.

Re: Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

#169

Post by prmoustache »

citrin_ru wrote: post #161
cbmuser wrote: post #50

It’s really only economics, there is simply no relevant market for mechanical cassette players that would justify the investment. I don’t think it’s true that the capabilities to make these devices are lost. There are still companies like ALPS that are capable of making the necessary parts. But in the end, the market is too small to justify any investments.

Modern economy cannot exists without economy of scale. It's unfortunate is that if you want something else than millions of other people the price likely will be prohibitive - small scale production is not viable economically, especially for high tech components and devices. > I don’t think it’s true that the capabilities to make these devices are lost. I think they are. Not all knowledge is captured in documentation…

> I think they are. Not all knowledge is captured in documentation and blueprints. A lot of knowledge existed only in brains of now retired people. And even blueprints are lost when companies go out of businesses.

We are talking implementations details to build the slimmest walkmans made in history.

That doesn't mean we couldn't make a much better sounding tape player protoype and still a slimmer one than the We are Rewind player and what is available today on Amazon, then iterating on making it smaller and smaller over the models. The main issue is still money and market, you can't spend that time on iterating and improving the design if the market is small and you are losing money.

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