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Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

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Re: Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

#121

Post by TACD »

rbanffy wrote: post #95

I always found the MD format super cool. It’s a real shame that, even with BD-like densities, it just can’t compete with a cheap USB stick.

MiniDisc would have been an ideal successor to the floppy disk if only Sony had unclenched their fist just a little bit. USB sticks are higher capacity but there's utility in having media you don't have to keep track of; especially in the early 2000s it would have been very handy to give somebody a MiniDisc of data and just say "don't worry too much about getting that back to me, I have a whole box at home".

We had rewriteable CDs but they were so awkward, large, and unreliable that it never quite filled that need.

Re: Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

#122

Post by eichin »

trencedamp wrote: post #106
nl wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I want to buy a new MP3 player, I have to buy something from a company I've never heard of with a terrible screen, use an old phone, or buy some sort of enthusiast audiophile flac player thing that costs way too much. Is this surprising? They are a commodity (you can literally build a fairly decent for less than $10 in parts) so therefore are low profit. Brands you have heard of generally don't want to play in c…

I've bought several of these and they don't last. You're right that they are commodity items. The components and quality are shit, there's no support, and six months later the company has vanished. I guess I just want somewhere between $30 and $500, somewhere between absolutely piece of shit and extreme prestige. But I'm dreaming if I think anyone is going to serve that market

it's a little weird but most of the sub $50 ESP-32 boards on waveshare include an MP3 player as one of many demo bits of code (primarily because it shows off code for "read from microSD card" and "drive the DAC".) It's not quite what you're asking for, just a benchmark that it's kind of "too easy to build" which might get in the way of actual products.

Re: Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

#123

Post by ezst »

SpecialistK wrote: post #53
ezst wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you still adore it as much today, though? I know I don't adore my iPod classic as much now as I did in 2006, and that's inclusive of the nostalgia kick. It's just not very practical and usable in today's world.

I don't use it daily, but I enjoyed rediscovering and using my MiniDisc stuff that I was inspired to build a pretty popular website around it :)

I would really love to try MD: besides the "tactileness" of it, the storage limits imposes to actively curate playlists and make compromises on how much/what music you can carry with you given the circumstances. An iPod classic already has so much storage available that this thought is secondary and you don't have to engage with your music to the same extent.

Re: Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

#124

Post by where-group-by »

implements wrote: post #119

If you want something Walkman-like and aren’t short of a few bob, there’s always: https://teenage.engineering/products/tp-7 - scratches a similar itch, but is also a: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objet_d'art

Only 1500 euro.

I would not be suprise if it was cheaper to find and refurb a vintage Walkman.

Re: Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

#125

Post by fragmede »

trencedamp wrote: post #13

This is a really interesting read. But it doesn't answer one question I have, which is why can't Sony or Apple or anyone else bring back decent MP3 players? None of this technology is lost, and there are plenty of small-time two bit no name players out there still making them, often in a much smaller, much slicker form factor than than the original digital Walkman or iPod. If I want to buy a new MP3 player, I have to…

Now we're just haggling over price. Make more money and be less cheap.

I'd like a Ferrari for $20,000 but we both know that's not gonna happen.

These days, you can just buy a name, but it's expensive.

Factory A is going to make a device for $50, sell 1,000 for them for $150 and make $100,000 ($150*1000-$50*1000).

Factory B can make the same device for $50, buy a name that you've heard of for $100,000, buy some reviews in magazines you're heard of for another $100,000, and sell 1,000 of them for $350 a piece and then they'll make $100,000. ($350*1000-$200,000-$50*1000)

Re: Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

#126

Post by SpecialistK »

phire wrote: post #88
trencedamp wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be "some sort of enthusiast audiophile flac player thing that costs way too much" The entry level Walkman is $400 and only has 32gb internal storage. It's all about flac and hires audio but you're paying through the nose for the brand

I guess there just is no room in the current market for a mid-ranged product. The segment is being squeezed on at least five sides (probably more): - Cheap low-end no-name players; - Audiophile products like the Sony walkman stuff; - People who are happy using their phones; - (for the exercise "phone too heavy" use case) A smart watch, paired to bluetooth headphones; - Second hand iPods from the 2000s, often refurbis…

I just thought that maybe this is something for a personal Pi 0 project. DAC + microSD card + off the shelf display + 3D printed case + battery.

Re: Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

#127

Post by numpad0 »

trencedamp wrote: post #118
jnaina wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they do. tons of them. https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-mp3-player.html

I've bought too many of these. They never look like the picture, the screens are awful, they all use the same shit soc, they don't last and they have issues with tags and sorting. I just want a company I've heard of to make something that doesn't absolutely suck but also doesn't cost more than a phone

You get what you pay for.

Ultimately what you are wondering is why electronics companies aren't relentlessly updating and optimizing products like they did during 1980s-2010s at every price point between $4.99 to $499.99M, that just wasn't normal, and that wasn't sustainable after all.

I think there's a chance that the world would go through these discussions again for software, and we realize why only US could produce great software, but we'll see...

Re: Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

#128

Post by SpecialistK »

ezst wrote: post #123
SpecialistK wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't use it daily, but I enjoyed rediscovering and using my MiniDisc stuff that I was inspired to build a pretty popular website around it :)

I would really love to try MD: besides the "tactileness" of it, the storage limits imposes to actively curate playlists and make compromises on how much/what music you can carry with you given the circumstances. An iPod classic already has so much storage available that this thought is secondary and you don't have to engage with your music to the same extent.

Absolutely, and that's something I've tried to highlight in the FAQs on the site - limitation breeds creativity. It makes you appreciate the media just a little bit more.

One of the best places to have MD is in a car. You can quickly identify (by unique color or label) each disc, which is either a full album presented as the artist intended or a playlist you curated. There's no "shuffle all 5000 songs" or "here's a playlist Spotify calls 80s kitchen songs but is half 90s pop you've heard before"

Re: Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

#129

Post by ssl-3 »

pelgueta wrote: post #78
trencedamp wrote: post #13

This is a really interesting read. But it doesn't answer one question I have, which is why can't Sony or Apple or anyone else bring back decent MP3 players? None of this technology is lost, and there are plenty of small-time two bit no name players out there still making them, often in a much smaller, much slicker form factor than than the original digital Walkman or iPod. If I want to buy a new MP3 player, I have to…

Did you even read the article? They mention Sony sells a new Walkman just like what you mention https://www.sony.co.uk/walkman

Maybe it's just me (am I holding it wrong?), but the link you provided lands at only two products:

  DMP-Z1 Digital Music Player Signature Series (price unavailable)
  WM1ZM2 Walkman® Signature Series (£3,299.00, financing available)

Re: Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

#130

Post by amelius »

cbmuser wrote: post #50

It’s really only economics, there is simply no relevant market for mechanical cassette players that would justify the investment. I don’t think it’s true that the capabilities to make these devices are lost. There are still companies like ALPS that are capable of making the necessary parts. But in the end, the market is too small to justify any investments.

But the article explains WHY the investments are necessary in the first place.
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